In my 2 years of vette ownership, I've seen 3 broken blocks as a result of hydrolock. All 3 cars had the vortex rammer induction system. "ya pay your money,ya take your chances".

 

i am looking to install a vortex rammer on my 2000 c5. i was also planning on adding a screen underneath the car, similar to this one

http://www.madvet.com/shop?frame=2.3989

in order to keep out debris. i was hoping that this would also shield the filter from direct hits if i were to hit a large puddle unexpectedly. has anyone used a similar set-up with the vortex?

 

My Vortex Ram system produced a noticeable SOP effect. More than any other mod. I also added an oversized TB, LS6 intake (I own a 2000) shorty headers and Magnaflow x-pipe and Cat Back system. The car Dyno's at 346 HP/371TQ at rear wheels. HP is probably low because of the 4.10 rear.

Like I said, the Vortex made the single biggest difference SOP. I am happy and no problems in heavy rain. Just don't drive through a flooded gully with water over the nose.

 

I would recommend the Blackwing or something similar. One teaspoon of water past the filter will hydrolock an engine. Water doesn't compress. Aluminum does. But it never could happen to us, right?

Bob

 

Got your wish Bob. As for the Vortex rammer, before I swapped to the Vararam I ran the Breathless box. South Florida... VERY HEAVY RAIN no problems at all. Excellent bang for the buck but, if your planning on hitting the track the Vararam system can't be beat.

 

Bob, I have two comments. Take ANY air intake and remove the filter. You will see the same performance.

Second comment. Fluid mechanics. I will write something and it will become my standard rely to the Vararam posts. The design of the Vararam and all the advertising is but I will present just the facts. It cannot do what is claimed. Any performance gain is the result of a poor filter. Of course, there are people that don't know 2+2=4.

Bob

 

I can't wait to see it. Your write up on fluid mechanics, that is.


You say that if the Vararam works, it is because it uses a "poor filter". Well, the Vortex gives very similar results, in fact you would be hard pressed to see a performance difference between the Vararam and the Vortex. Both, however, are about equal in their degree of trouncing the Blackwing when it comes to performance.

But the Vortex uses a K&N type filter and not a "cheap" foam filter.. How then, do you account for the Vortex's performance benefits over the under hood systems like the Blackwing?


Remove the filter from any intake and you will see the "same performance," you say. That performance being say, 3 mph, or more trap speed improvements and .15-.30 ET improvements.

Well, they say necessity is the mother of invention. And I remember the Zip Tie Mod...... and the Swiss Cheese Mod.

Why have we not seen the "Panty Hose mod"???

You know, remove your stock air filter/intake entirely,...... and stretch / secure a measure of panty hose over the MAF to keep bad things from going up the intake???

Sounds like it ought to be good for 3 MPH and 4 tenths??
If it worked someone, probably a ricer, somewhere, on some car...... would have done it already and reported the results.


But back to the filter, Korreck. I believe that the Vortex uses a K&N type filter, ie a non foam filter, and it gives results similar to the Vararam. What does this do to your "poor filter accounts for the gains" theory?..


Bottom breathers outperform underhood breathers. Irrespective of filter.

..

.

 

Like I said, I will explain when I have time. I will show why the design is flawed and why it doesn't do what they claim it can do. It will take quite a bit of my time to write this up in detail. And some people will still say it's BS.

One thing I question about you is that you are doing a comparison. Yet you seem to be 100% in favor of the Vararam. Can you still be impartial?

Another question. Why is my car performing better than other C5's and all I have is the lowly Blackwing. I think it was just luck of the draw when I bought it.

I am not advocating the Blackwing. I want people to be aware of the dangers involved with a bottom feeder. I also want people to know that the ram air and the other claims made by Vararam are BS. I also want people to be aware they use an inferior filter.

Why take it so personal?

Bob

 

Not personal, and I am impartial. You see, I have both intakes and I like the Blackwing a lot. As a filter, it is difficult, if not impossible to beat.

But the reported results I have seen and my own results, indicate, no strongly indicate, that the Vararam, and the Vortex offer a performance benefit over the underhood breathers. The latest results we are seeing from AT&NB (Allthrottleandnobottle). Unmistakable proof of the performance benefits of one particular intake system over another

You see, it went like this: First the naysayers tried to deny that there even was a benefit to be seen, in a bottom feeder vs an underhood intake.

They said that any reported benefits were anecdotal at best. They prided themselves on being able to attribute any reportable gain to discrepancies in 60ft times, DA, vehicle weight, tuning, other modifications, etc.

Now, in the face of much better obtained and documented results, and more practical comparisons, it seems that some are having to admit that "well, there just may be a benefit," but its not due to "ram air" or "cold air." Keep in mind, that this was the same crowd which denied that there was a difference or a benefit at all.

Now that they grudgingly have to admit that it appears that the bottom breathers perform better, they want to attribute the improvement solely to the restrictiveness, the integrity, the very quality of the filter.

Only problem is that there are a lot of bottom breathers out there, and they do not all use foam filters. But they all offer similar results. And those results are virtually always superior to the underhood systems.

Now my question would be:

"If the Vararam gets it's performance boost by virtue of it's cheap filter, then what is the secret of the performance benefit of the Vortex, which gives very similar performance to the Vararam, yet uses a K&N type filter?"

 

I will try in the next week to write a report where I can show the ineffectiveness of the design. In other words, why it can't work. This is going to take quite a bit of time on my part.

A lot of people will still say it's BS. A lot of people will agree. And will anything be resolved? We know the answer don't we.

Bob

 

Well, I appreciate your efforts.

Yes, but why does it work or appear to work anyway. When DAs are the same or worse than vs the Blackwing?, When 60ft times are the same or worse than vs the Blackwing? When vehicle weights are the same, or near the same, when the comparisons are done at the same track, in the same car, with the same driver, and on down the line.

I don't doubt that you can write volumes on why it shouldn't work.................................... ............but why does it????????

And furthermore, why does the Vortex work?????? Why does it give better performance results than the Blackwing and other underhood systems?

You know, one guy tried to say that it was a "placebo" effect. He hasn't shown up since the "flurry " of recent documented results.

 

I've read all this. That's why I think it's the filter. If anyone says SOP or placebo I don't address those remarks. Unless I'm in one of my moods.

If I ask you why it works I'll probably get an 'I don't know, it just does". It can't be cooler air. There may be a slight difference but not much. Look where your Blackwing was mounted. It can't be denser air. It can't be ram air. So why would it work? If anything the air would be more restricted.

These are the issues I hope to address next week.

Mom, well really my wife who acts like my mother says it's nighty night time. She's right.

Bob

 

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GAME ON Bob after swapping from the Vortex Rammer (which did an excellent job) I went to the Vararam along with another tune (LS EDIT) my car picked up OVER THE VORTEX 4.75 mph in the quarter at the track. When speaking to my tuner (who tuned the car via e-mail) he said although he would like to take 100% credit for the huge increase in speed, he can't as he believe's the Vararam gave me at least 50% of the increase. Say what you want, my results prove to me that the Vararam is indeed the best out there. Now onto our regularly scheduled bashing.

 

It would have been nice to see the difference in intakes before the last tune was done. I'm sure the tuner doesn't want to take credit, but it adds another variable. I have the Vortex, and I love it, but I would like to know out of curiousity if there is better one out there.

I wonder if you would have swapped in the other direction, and then retuned, would it have picked up speed? I guess we won't know, but it is possible the Vortex is the lesser of the two. What tuning changes did he make, and why did he retune it? Thanks, dude.

 

How much would you like to see? I have 3 years worth of time slips. He adjusted the torque management perimiters. He retuned it because I asked him to review what my past tuner did and see if he could make it better.
Bob

 

I could beat that Kia of yours with my golf cart. Oh, you forgot to mention you have the Vararararam on a Kia and the Blackwing on your Vette. Nice try. Mail order car, mail order tune. Makes sense to me.

Bob

 

My Vette will vary 3 MPH in the 1/4 on the same day. Very scientific test you did. Congrats.

 

 

It's the nut behind the wheel.