[Z06] Predator tuning installed. Impressions so far...
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Predator tuning installed. Impressions so far...
I just installed the Predator tuning and I can hear audible knock
but the spark retard read 0 throughout this detonation. It seems worse when you reset the ecu, but that would be expected when you reset it to base tables and it is in the learn mode. I'm gonna give it more time and see if the ECU learns the spark curve based on the knock data it recieves.
There is NO DOUBT the car is more responsive and more powerful across the board. I can feel it without question. It's actually more than I expected. It's just the pinging that concerns me. I hope it subsides, cause if it doesn't, I will have to get a custom tune. I'm seing 26 degrees advance now at WOT near redline.
I also installed a 160 stat with it, so I'll keep you posted. I think that may throw a code due to the temp being too low for its closed loop threshold.
but the spark retard read 0 throughout this detonation. It seems worse when you reset the ecu, but that would be expected when you reset it to base tables and it is in the learn mode. I'm gonna give it more time and see if the ECU learns the spark curve based on the knock data it recieves.There is NO DOUBT the car is more responsive and more powerful across the board. I can feel it without question. It's actually more than I expected. It's just the pinging that concerns me. I hope it subsides, cause if it doesn't, I will have to get a custom tune. I'm seing 26 degrees advance now at WOT near redline.
I also installed a 160 stat with it, so I'll keep you posted. I think that may throw a code due to the temp being too low for its closed loop threshold.
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From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
26 degrees of advance is too much for a near stock Z06. No wonder you are pinging. Did you do a before dyno run? You car is probably not making more power than stock. The PCM does NOT change its spark curve based on prior knock signals. It will pull timing way back when it senses knock, probably well below the stock 22 degrees of advance. The PCM will try to deliver your programmed 26 degrees the next time you go wide open, but you will probably just knock again. Do a 4th gear low-rpm roll on and you should see a lot of knock retard when attempting 26 degrees.
A real dyno tune would be a better investment.
A real dyno tune would be a better investment.
Last edited by RussBt; May 23, 2005 at 10:18 PM.
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From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
26 degrees of advance is too much for a near stock Z06. No wonder you are pinging. Did you do a before dyno run? You car is probably not making more power than stock. The PCM does NOT change its spark curve based on prior knock signals. It will pull timing way back when it senses knock, probably well below the stock 22 degrees of advance. The PCM will try to deliver your programmed 26 degrees the next time you go wide open, but you will probably just knock again. Do a 4th gear low-rpm roll on and you should see a lot of knock retard when attempting 26 degrees.
A real dyno tune would be a better investment.
A real dyno tune would be a better investment.
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Originally Posted by rbartick
26 degrees of advance is too much for a near stock Z06. No wonder you are pinging. Did you do a before dyno run? You car is probably not making more power than stock. The PCM does NOT change its spark curve based on prior knock signals. It will pull timing way back when it senses knock, probably well below the stock 22 degrees of advance. The PCM will try to deliver your programmed 26 degrees the next time you go wide open, but you will probably just knock again. Do a 4th gear low-rpm roll on and you should see a lot of knock retard when attempting 26 degrees.
A real dyno tune would be a better investment.
A real dyno tune would be a better investment.
The car is definately making more power than stock!
It makes much more advance at lower rpms, tapering to 25 at redline.
Why would the Predator run so much timing? Even with it's base tune, it pings. When you add some fuel, it gets better, but it's still there. All I have is a Vararam and a Magnaflow Xpipe.
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From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
Originally Posted by Innovator
The car is definately making more power than stock!
Last edited by RussBt; May 24, 2005 at 11:34 AM.
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From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
Originally Posted by Innovator
The car is definately making more power than stock!
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Originally Posted by rbartick
I seriously doubt it. Do a before and after dyno and see for yourself. Make sure you have at least 50 miles and 5 key cycles on your tune when you do the after dyno. You would be much better off with a real dyno tune instead of playing guessing games with the handheld. 26 degrees of advance is way too much for a near stock Z06. You could try to keep the ping under control by running way rich but in the end you will not be gaining anything.
I'm sure you have more miles under your belt with this car than I. I am fairly knowledgeable about tuning however, as it is one of the things I do for a living. That being said....
The car is faster er um..quicker . Maybe the peak HP/tq is not improved noticably, but the responsiveness is certainly improved.
What is the timing advance at around 5K with the stock factory tuning supposed to be?
Rick
Last edited by Innovator; May 24, 2005 at 12:32 PM.
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From: Delray Beach FL
Predator can disable CAGS and it also turns off the annoying light. I have the base tune on my 01 and it helped a lot on the SOTP meter. As for actual numbers, I have no clue what it added.
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From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
The Stock Timing is shown below. I am not sure how you are able to assess that the car is quicker. Seat of the pants is a very poor indicator. A perfect tune on an airbox-only car is worth maybe 10-15 HP and that is pretty darn hard to detect on a 405 HP car. I personally can’t detect that.
Spark knock will put dips in your HP and Torque curves. It is easily visible on a dyno sheet. If you really want to see what your car is doing you need to put it on a dyno. It is human nature to think that your car feels faster after you spend $400 on mods. People that have dyno tested the hand-helds have found that they provide no gain and sometimes a loss. Every car can be a bit different so for real results you will have to dyno tune and read OBDII data with a real logging scanner.
Spark knock will put dips in your HP and Torque curves. It is easily visible on a dyno sheet. If you really want to see what your car is doing you need to put it on a dyno. It is human nature to think that your car feels faster after you spend $400 on mods. People that have dyno tested the hand-helds have found that they provide no gain and sometimes a loss. Every car can be a bit different so for real results you will have to dyno tune and read OBDII data with a real logging scanner.
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Originally Posted by rbartick
The Stock Timing is shown below. I am not sure how you are able to assess that the car is quicker. Seat of the pants is a very poor indicator. A perfect tune on an airbox-only car is worth maybe 10-15 HP and that is pretty darn hard to detect on a 405 HP car. I personally can’t detect that.
If I'm not seeing any timing retard and the Predator timing tables are more aggressive than stock, would it not be resonable to assume it is making a little more power throughout the powerband and not just peak?
Last edited by Innovator; May 24, 2005 at 03:22 PM.
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From: Admit Nothing, Deny Everything, Make Counter Accusations.
More timing is not necessarily indicative of more power. You will not make more power if the motor does not need more timing. You will really need a full featured logging scanner to track what is going on with spark timing, retard, attack, and decay. The hand-held scanner will not do it. The sampling rate is too slow and you can't safely look at the screen while blasting down the road. The PCM does not alter timing based on learning information. It alters fuel trims.
You should certainly do whatever you are comfortable with. My posts were basically meant to say that if you want a real measurable gain then you should have a dyno tune done by one of the reputable tuners. Why assume that you got a gain, put it on a Dynojet SAE dyno, do before and after runs, and find out for sure. I am not trying to start a heated debate. I only wanted to have a light tech discussion.
You should certainly do whatever you are comfortable with. My posts were basically meant to say that if you want a real measurable gain then you should have a dyno tune done by one of the reputable tuners. Why assume that you got a gain, put it on a Dynojet SAE dyno, do before and after runs, and find out for sure. I am not trying to start a heated debate. I only wanted to have a light tech discussion.
Last edited by RussBt; May 24, 2005 at 03:36 PM.
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From: Delray Beach FL
Originally Posted by rbartick
The Stock Timing is shown below. I am not sure how you are able to assess that the car is quicker. Seat of the pants is a very poor indicator. A perfect tune on an airbox-only car is worth maybe 10-15 HP and that is pretty darn hard to detect on a 405 HP car. I personally can’t detect that.
1. Disable CAGS and get rid of the light.
2. Pull Codes and Clear Codes.
Other things that can be done:
Lower fan temps
Change wheel size
Change rear end ratios
As for hand-helds, I believe SLP's kit has the customer download their factory specs to the unit, send it back to SLP and then SLP does a custom tune based on your vehicle. One of the major Vette magazines reviewed their kits and thought it was great.
In the end, to each his own. Will having a dyno tune give you more...yes. There is no denying that. But, in the meantime, there are benefits of the handheld programmers. A lot more benefits than the old "super chips".
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Originally Posted by rbartick
More timing is not necessarily indicative of more power. You will not make more power if the motor does not need more timing. You will really need a full featured logging scanner to track what is going on with spark timing, retard, attack, and decay. The hand-held scanner will not do it. The sampling rate is too slow and you can't safely look at the screen while blasting down the road. The PCM does not alter timing based on learning information. It alters fuel trims.
You should certainly do whatever you are comfortable with. My posts were basically meant to say that if you want a real measurable gain then you should have a dyno tune done by one of the reputable tuners. Why assume that you got a gain, put it on a Dynojet SAE dyno, do before and after runs, and find out for sure. I am not trying to start a heated debate. I only wanted to have a light tech discussion.
You should certainly do whatever you are comfortable with. My posts were basically meant to say that if you want a real measurable gain then you should have a dyno tune done by one of the reputable tuners. Why assume that you got a gain, put it on a Dynojet SAE dyno, do before and after runs, and find out for sure. I am not trying to start a heated debate. I only wanted to have a light tech discussion.
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Add things to a car that are supposed to make it go faster and you believe the car actually is faster. Placebo effect has come into play. I am also amazed at how many people claim to feel 10hp gains.
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Originally Posted by Shylor
Add things to a car that are supposed to make it go faster and you believe the car actually is faster. Placebo effect has come into play. I am also amazed at how many people claim to feel 10hp gains.
.But it's the increase in power at lower load situations that you can feel...