Ethanol Blend
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Instructor
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 178
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From: Sayreville NJ
Ethanol Blend
Today when I got gas at the BP Amoco station I noticed a sticker on the pump that the gas contains 10% ethanol. I would assume that this includes the Ultimate gas which is 93 octane. Any body know if this will effect performance, fuel economy or have any harmful effects.
Thanks
Thanks
Pro
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 669
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From: CA
I believe that Corvettes can operate with 10 or 15% ethonol with no ill effects. Any greater level of alchol may cause damage to hoses, gaskets, sealers, etc. The owners manual says something about this, but I don't have mine handy. In theory straight alcohol is more powerful than gasoline, but racecars that use it have fuel systems designed to be undamaged by the fuel. I'm sure someone will chime in with the right data on this.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,995
Likes: 61
From: Fort Wayne IN
I too found out that BP is blending 10% ethanol in their fuels. I run autofuel in my airplane and avoid any alcohol like the plague since the a/c fuel system does not tolorate it. Anyway, your gas mileage will suffer from blended fuel since alcohol does not have the same BTU output that pure gasoline has. It may help make more HP but at the expense of MPG. I tested several brands and found that Shell (at least in Indiana) is still pure gasoline so that's what I use all the time in my '99. I don't believe Indiana law requires stations to sticker pumps stating alcohol content. 
Last edited by Tigershark3; Feb 11, 2006 at 11:57 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 836
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From: Colorado Springs, Colo., USA
Originally Posted by rrross
Today when I got gas at the BP Amoco station I noticed a sticker on the pump that the gas contains 10% ethanol. I would assume that this includes the Ultimate gas which is 93 octane. Any body know if this will effect performance, fuel economy or have any harmful effects.
Thanks
Thanks
We went through this years ago, when Colorado was forced to go to an Ethanol blend during the winter months for air quality purposes. All reasonably recent (last 20 years) GM cars can use the mix, especially at 10%, without problems. Your mileage will suffer because the mix returns less energy which means reduced mileage. Might notice some loss in performance, but doubtful. You would have to have the best SOTP meter in humankind for that. A dyno would notice, however. I avoid the stuff when I can.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 666
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From: Oviedo FL
Originally Posted by Tigershark3
I tested several brands and found that Shell (at least in Indiana) is still pure gasoline so that's what I use all the time in my '99. I don't believe Indiana law requires stations to sticker pumps stating alcohol content.
1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:
Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
Contain no less than 8 volume percent olefins. At least 75% of the olefins shall be derived from FCC gasoline as defined by CARB (advisory letter, April 19, 2001).
Contain no less than 28 volume percent aromatics.
Contain no less than 48 mg/kg sulfur. At least 60% of the sulfur shall be derived from FCC blend stock.
Produce a 90% evaporation distillation temperature no less than 290°F.
Produce IVD no less than 500 mg averaged over all intake valves.
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Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,742
Likes: 1,205
From: Wisconsin
here in WI. the 93 octane fuels DO NOT contain Ethanol at Shell and BP, but they are considering mandating 10% in all. The lower grades are all but impossible to find without E. Stations are required to post on the pumps what you are getting
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,269
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From: Dallas Texas
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'09-'10
GM is starting to push "Go Yellow" which is about E85 fuel that's 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. The Yellow is for corn the chief source of ethanol. They claim a lot of their newer model are already set up to use it.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Likes: 2
From: Wahpeton ND
It's all about octane.... E10... E15... or E20 at the proper octane will be fine. E85 is not an appropriate fuel at any octane because the fuel system is not designed for it. E85 will dry out gaskets, seals injectors etc. on vehicles that are not designed for E85.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,995
Likes: 61
From: Fort Wayne IN
Originally Posted by Scott03Z06
I don't believe so. Shell gasoline is a Top Tier Gasoline and all their grades meet the Top Tier Requirements. Below is the base fuel requirements (see http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html)....
1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:
Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:
Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
It's easy to test for ethanol. Simply pour a measured amount of water into a container mark that level with a marker, add the fuel you want to test. Water and ethanol will bind and mix together so that the level in the botom of your container will rise if there is ethanol present. Did it with Shell gas in Indiana and found no ethanol. BP fuel however will contain alcohol as will many other brands nowadays. My $.02
Instructor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 170
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From: Oklahoma
Originally Posted by rrross
Today when I got gas at the BP Amoco station I noticed a sticker on the pump that the gas contains 10% ethanol. I would assume that this includes the Ultimate gas which is 93 octane. Any body know if this will effect performance, fuel economy or have any harmful effects.
Thanks
Thanks
You are also right that it is easier to generate insane horsepower easier with this fuel as it is by nature higher octaine and less likely to pre ignite. This allows you to run either much higher compression, much higher boost and timing to boost performance but obviouslly at the expense of effeciency of fuel used. Another advantage is the engine runs much cooler. I know there were a few Supras running 30 plus pounds of boost wtih alcohol fuel and making in excess of 1000 RWHP with only a 3 liter motor.
In the near future the Fed will be pushing E85 I hear especially here in the mid part of the country to lessen our dependance on forign oil. The great news for me is, I should be able to keep racing with a totally renewable fuel that burns cleaner. Just need the car and engine building companies to get me the horse power
Now I need a corn farm.
Instructor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 170
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From: Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Tigershark3
It's easy to test for ethanol. Simply pour a measured amount of water into a container mark that level with a marker, add the fuel you want to test. Water and ethanol will bind and mix together so that the level in the botom of your container will rise if there is ethanol present. Did it with Shell gas in Indiana and found no ethanol. BP fuel however will contain alcohol as will many other brands nowadays. My $.02
Jeff
