I've heard folks say that Shorties don't provide much benefit, but I hope to hear from those that have them, or have firsthand experience with them, since I'm in California and can't pass visual smog check with LTs. Professional opinions are also welcome.

Specifically, I'd like to know if there's a lesser gain in performance than LTs, how much less is the gain? For example, if LTs give you 30hp (just a guess), do shorties only give you 10hp?

I'd also like to know the same thing in terms of loudness, and drone if there is any. So, if LTs make your exhaust 10x louder, do shorties also make your exhaust 10x louder? If you have no drone, wil you end up with drone? I have Corsa Pace Car GTRs, if that matters. Other minimal mods are in my sig.

Thanks alot.

 

This depends on the header. If you're talking about your basic shorty header, they offer minimal gains. The Ideal shorty header (borla or B&B) have equal length primaries and will provide nearly as much gain as a LT. The tuned primaries balance out exhaust pulses better then non-equal length shorties. With LTs, the tuning of the primaries is less of a factor simply because of the length.

Shorties also have the added benefit that most can be installed with hand tools by the average Joe. In addition, their small size keeps from cluttering up the engine compartment.

From what setups I've seen Shorties make the exhaust sound more hollow which magnifies the higher frequencies of exhaust resonance. I'm saving up for a set of B&B headers myself.

 

I have the B&B shorties on my 2000 vert. The install was easy, only 2 hours in total. The resonance was higher than the stock manifolds, but I also have the B&B PRT exhaust. With the factory exhaust or mellower exhaust set-up I would imagine the resonance wouldn't be noticeable at all. I dynoed an honest 10 horsepower gain at the rear wheels with only existing mods of an LS6 intake manifold and a blackwing air cleaner.
I would imagine that with more mods, I probaply would have seen greater gains with the shorties.
One thing I must commend B&B on, is the exquisite build quality of these shorties; in seven years I have had no cracks rattles or vibrations from them, the headers have decent ground clearance, and spark plug changes are no worse than the factory set-ups.
LT's will give better gains, but I feel the trade off for the increased underhood temps, aggravation on install, and other minor grievances wasn't worth it to me. If power is what your after go LT's, if your looking for a compromise, go high quality shorties.

 

I'm in Cali as well and have been kicking this mod around for some time. Though long tubes would be my preferred choice, I really don't want to worry about the visual inspection when the smog cert comes due. That said, if I went for the shorties (B&B), should I have them coated? Also, do you guy's recommend a cat swap as well? My current set up is only a B&B PRT cat back exhaust. Thanks for posting this thread and for everyones input

 

You'll get an honest 10 rwhp from B&B shorties. Silly in my opinion to have them coated as they are already excellent stainless and you only see very little of the top of them once they are installed......

 

Well Thanks Alot!

I too live in California and just about all your SMOG Shops do not know what headers are and plus each one I've talked too actually do not care if they are aftermarket, if they ask - "JUST AS LONG AS IT PASSES THE SNIFFER!" is what they say!

Just be upfront and they'll give you the go ahead!

You will like the LT's better!

Thanks,Matt

 

What is this "visual" smog inspection? And furthermore, how do headers (with cats) cause any more emissions?

Is the sniffer the same thing they use on pre-96 cars to check emissions? (stick in the tailpipe thing?)

 

VISUAL: Is each vehicle has a certain amount of "Visualy" seen smog equipment. Ex: Air Tube from air pump to light off the Cats befor closed loop! It is located on the exhaust manifold, if it is gone and they don't see it you can fail! or your MAF is missing on a MAF equiped vehicle!

NO Headers and Hi-Flow Cats "DO NOT" make more emissions. Heads and Cam's do but the tuning can take care of any excessive emissions on our PCM equiped vehicles!

SNIFFER: You described it perfectly! It is the thingy they put in your tailpipe to read the emissions coming from your vehicle!

Thanks,Matt

 

I passed SMOG here in California last month with my H/C, Headers, Hi-Flow Cats with flying colors!

Why? Because it was tuned to run perfect on a DYNO! with the proper Air/Fuel Ratio with Hydrocarbons and the rest measured to pass!

What I'd suggest is go to a smog station and do a preliminary smog test and get the results on the sheet of paper they give you, without it being sent to the State, and then take it to your tuner and have him adjust as necessary!

Thanks,Matt

 

I'm not falling for the banana in the tailpipe trick!

 

Hey MADMATT9471, thanks for chiming in on this thread. You got me really leaning hard on LT's and Hi-Flow Cats now. I know I'll have to have the car re-tuned after the LT's and cats but I like the pre-smog check idea (I still got another 1-1/2 years left on the current cert). If it fails the sniffer then back to my tuner to dial things in. Thanks again Matt , JEFF

 

I don't like the idea that I might have to remove LTs IF they do detect them, because once you fail a smog test here, it goes on record with the state, then you HAVE to take it to a government sanctioned shop for the next smog, and unless you've got "grease", you're gonna be screwed. Hence, my interest in the shorties.

 

I did a smog check a couple of months ago. I have a pro charger and the guy never even asked what it was. It passed way under the limits, in fact the smog guy said it was of the cleanest cars he has tested. My tune was done by A&A. If I wanted more horsepower (I don't) I would put on the LTs in a second.

Rick

 

I put on a set of B&B shorties a few months ago and detailed it here

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1750971

I am happy with them. The car is a bit louder, but not much. A fair bit louder at WOT. I can't really say I see more hp, but I do like the overall sound to go with my Corsa Tourings.

 

I am running a set of B&B Shorty with RT hi-flow cats & X-pipe. along with Corsa Touring pipes; also hooked up a Calloway CAI for a more balance approach. I get a quicker acceleration response and the noise level is not too loud, where I have to yell out my conversation. The B&B are so much lighter than the stock exhaust manifold. No dyno test, so I don’t know what numbers the increase are...

Definitely not so terrible of an install and I highly recommend you get them ceramic coated before you do the install. Got my coated by Hot Jet and it does add to the bling, not to mention the heat reduction under the hood.

 

smog

 

I agree!! I purchased my 99 vert and the owner had the smog check done but because it was 8 days past the 90 day allowable to sell. I recieved all my DMV papres in the mail today and now I haveto get another smog test!! Anyone know of a good place to go to in my area?? I live in Fontana, CA

 

Thanks for the posts thus far. For those that have them, could you please elaborate on the loudness on a scale of 1 - 10, using 1 as the base before shorties at idle, cruise and WOT.

For example,

State - Before - Now
Idle - 1 - 3
Cruise - 1 - 4
WOT - 1 - 8

 

i had a set of B&B on my 2000 cpe. i liked them a bunch. pretty easy to install, looked good, passed smog, and added some umph also. the sound did change. right away you hear the click or pht pht sound of each cilynder. the start up was a little louder ( i had corsa indy's also )
the cruise was more of the same chatter headers make. the WOT was deeper also. most of the difference was because of the "header sound " from them not being as sound insulated as manifolds are.
hard to give you the 1-10 like you mention. i would say add 2pts to all of them over std manifolds if i had to guess. i can tell you that the B&B are the way to go in shorties and most people seem to say go to LT instead. myself..... i will stick with the shorties again next time around. and i know some say they dont offer much power gain. but they do give atleast 10hp and from what i understand even more torque on a stk engine then LT do. get them !!! they are worth the money in my opinion. heck, i even sold them after a few yrs for real close to what i paid originally for them here on the forum used. remember that the 97-99are one set, the 2000 is individual, and 2001 and newer are another if you are buying them used thru the for sale section. some mods can make them retro fit.

the biggest thing you will hear at cruise is the clatter/chatter from under the hood over the stk manifolds. the rest will be all from yur mufflers. it wont add drone as you asked. more if a click click,pht pht type sound as the exhuast exits the heads into the headers.

 

25 HP not going to matter so much..

Sound is what concerned with..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsJSpqPAQMU

Will the shorties give this sound..or do you have to have
long tubes...and would different long tube brands give
different tones..???

Think the car in the video is a ZO6 but not sure...? hard to
believe a stock ZO6 is so quiet and then all you do is add the
long tube headers and it sounds like this..at least I hope it will..