10% Ethanol Fuel
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,658
Likes: 25
From: Rochester Minnesota
In Colorado where I live we have had 10% Ethanol added to our winter fuel along the Front Range for more than a decade.
I have seen a consistent 2 mpg lower fuel economy during those months, but no driveability issues. Probably a little less performance (though I hear Ethanol has higher octane, so if someone is more versed in this than me, please jump in!)
We see it as a small price to pay for cleaner air in the winter when we get significant temperature inversions that trap smog in the basins where Colorado Springs and Denver sit.
I have seen a consistent 2 mpg lower fuel economy during those months, but no driveability issues. Probably a little less performance (though I hear Ethanol has higher octane, so if someone is more versed in this than me, please jump in!)
We see it as a small price to pay for cleaner air in the winter when we get significant temperature inversions that trap smog in the basins where Colorado Springs and Denver sit.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 638
Likes: 1
From: Bainbridge Island Wa
It's a well-known fact that the use of E85 in a "flex-fuel" vehicle capable of using gasoline, E10 or E85, will provide far fewer miles per gallon when using E85 compared to gasoline (officially and generally stated by the Ethanol industry as a 30% drop). This is because ethanol has far less energy per gallon than does gasoline despite a higher natural octane number.
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1217
Now you can get off your soapbox once and for all.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 638
Likes: 1
From: Bainbridge Island Wa
"The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B.
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A."
This is the only reason you see less mileage. Read it, it doesnt matter how you make it, ethanol does not have the same energy that a gallon of gas has, if you get off your rant and silly liberal thinking you have to accept the fact. This is the same crap you liberals put out about nuclear power since three mile island and now all of a sudden, Nukes are good.
For the record, you can stop using energy in this United States and the earth is doomed by the cesspools of China, India, and Russia and other Kyoto accord set a sides. That is why Bush and Clinton didn't ratify the treaty.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,336
Likes: 4
From: NW Arkansas
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
I sponsored an IMCA dirt car and built motors for several other cars. Running 100% alcohol, mechanical compression ratios could be bumped well above pump gasoline. 12 to 1 and above and more timing possible. But, carb jet size would have to almost doubled and high volume fuel pumps used. Pure alcohol leads to corrosion problems in a very short time.
if alcohol has only half the efficiency btu wise as gasoline, wouldn't a 10% mixture only have a potential performance loss of 5%?
as far as alcohol "absorbing" water..... nope. alcohol beaks down the surface tension of the water molecules, dispersing them throughout the gasoline instead of large puddles floating around in the tank.
Racer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 307
Likes: 1
From: Saskatoon
Well, I'm on no ones side about ethanol until I study the issue for myself. Stripping away the name calling, there are some good arguments made of both sides. I had to reply though because I was wondering what makes India, China, and Russia cesspools?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 969
Likes: 39
From: Northern VA
I tend to go with what Pat Goss states about ethanol and how it reacts and interacts with the systems in my car,..........he is a nationally known expert on best practices in regard to automotive repair and maintenance,.......much of that confirmed in this thread.......
Individual experiences may vary,..............he sees what is happening in the industry from an inside view,........he has access to resources we can only dream of.
Have a look,......check out the Corvette section........he is a long time Corvette nut. Oh and Liddy's Lingenfelder ZR1.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/goss/
Individual experiences may vary,..............he sees what is happening in the industry from an inside view,........he has access to resources we can only dream of.
Have a look,......check out the Corvette section........he is a long time Corvette nut. Oh and Liddy's Lingenfelder ZR1.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/goss/
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 969
Likes: 39
From: Northern VA
They pumped raw waste and industrial waste directly into the rivers..............being green cost money and they are putting economic expansion over environment.
As stated the US and other dids this in the 40s,50s, 60s and part of the 70s..........but there was very little understanding of the impact it had on the environment and no technology to deal with it................now days there is no excuse.
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Racer
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 353
Likes: 94
From: USA
I think Pat Goss may have more advice as to selling things. than what is really needed.
He now supports Nitrogen in tires, I know this has been debated to Death, but he know supports NitroFill Inflation Services.
One of the thing i thought was funny is the Tour De France uses Nitrogen also. What ever!
http://www.goss-garage.com/node/32
He now supports Nitrogen in tires, I know this has been debated to Death, but he know supports NitroFill Inflation Services.
One of the thing i thought was funny is the Tour De France uses Nitrogen also. What ever!
http://www.goss-garage.com/node/32
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 152
Likes: 4
From: Columbus Ga
Why is that every time someone gets frustrated in their arguments, they start throwing out the "liberal" and "tree hugger" labels. It does nothing to enhance your argument and frankly makes you look kind of foolish.
Race Director
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 11,334
Likes: 136
From: Out of Site...Out of Mind. Corvette: anything else is just transportation.
St. Jude Donor '09 thru '20
Just to be on the safe side, I've started adding a fuel systems cleaner and octane boost. I know that increases the bottom line of what it costs to fuel my Vette's, but the crap that costs 3+ dollars/gal. doesn't hold up long and turns to gunk and will barely run my lawn mower. 
And after all..... they're Corvette's. Don't they deserve the best?
And after all..... they're Corvette's. Don't they deserve the best?
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,491
Likes: 6
From: Portland Oregon
What evidence---one person's slanted view based on his dislike for ethanol. There's lots of thing that can affect mpg----and the BTU content of ethanol doesn't lead to a 17% mpg reduction. In addition, there is nobody else on this thread that has seen anywhere near this reduction in their experiences. You must just be special. 
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,658
Likes: 25
From: Rochester Minnesota
How about a study done by people with some real credentials (University of North Dakota and University of Minnesota) as reported by Motor Trend (at least most of us have heard of Motor trend as opposed to the "rag" you linked).
http://www.motortrend.com/features/n...057/index.html
A very interesting statement from their report is, "The University of North Dakota Energy & Environmental Research Center (EERC) and the Minnesota Center for Automotive Research (MnCAR) conducted the research using four 2007 model vehicles: a Toyota Camry, a Ford Fusion and two Chevrolet Impalas, one flex-fuel and one non-flex-fuel. Researchers used the EPA Highway Fuel Economy Test (HWFET) to examine a range of ethanol-gasoline blends from straight Tier 2 gasoline up to 85 percent ethanol. All of the vehicles got better mileage with ethanol blends than the ethanol's energy content would predict, and three out of four actually traveled farther on a mid-level ethanol blend than on unleaded gasoline.
You need to come in out of the rain---it's starting to hail. And my soap box is under a good, strong roof!!
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,658
Likes: 25
From: Rochester Minnesota
"The energy of ethanol relative to gasoline
A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol
B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline
C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B.
D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A."
This is the only reason you see less mileage. Read it, it doesnt matter how you make it, ethanol does not have the same energy that a gallon of gas has, if you get off your rant and silly liberal thinking you have to accept the fact. This is the same crap you liberals put out about nuclear power since three mile island and now all of a sudden, Nukes are good.
For the record, you can stop using energy in this United States and the earth is doomed by the cesspools of China, India, and Russia and other Kyoto accord set a sides. That is why Bush and Clinton didn't ratify the treaty.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,658
Likes: 25
From: Rochester Minnesota
I think Pat Goss may have more advice as to selling things. than what is really needed.
He now supports Nitrogen in tires, I know this has been debated to Death, but he know supports NitroFill Inflation Services.
One of the thing i thought was funny is the Tour De France uses Nitrogen also. What ever!
http://www.goss-garage.com/node/32
He now supports Nitrogen in tires, I know this has been debated to Death, but he know supports NitroFill Inflation Services.
One of the thing i thought was funny is the Tour De France uses Nitrogen also. What ever!
http://www.goss-garage.com/node/32
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 152
Likes: 4
From: Columbus Ga
I don't know how many of you remember when the gov mandated unleaded fuel. We heard the same concerns (without the internet). But look at how much better these engines are now than they were then. Not because of the unleaded fuel, but American technologies ability to adapt, and to keep advancing in spite of it. I have faith that the corvettes 20 years from now will be even better. Ethonal, natural gas, electric? Who knows
