Manual or auto?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 2
From: Chicago IL
"I have a question though. When I upshfited from 1st to 2nd once, it was jerky, but I did let the clutch out a bit faster than I usually do (grandma speed). Is it just one of those things where I need to practice and get the feel for how fast I can let the clutch out or am I doing something wrong? How are those pro's shifting mad fast without jerking the car like crazy? I've been in some people's cars and I can tell they suck at shifting.. jerky and unsmooth, yet not yielding any performance. "
Probably shifted into 2nd and let the clutch out quickly while engine was at idle and it threw you forward and then you hit the throttle and shot forward giving you that herky jerky feeling. I have done that in Vette a couple of times with my GF and she got whiplash from her tata's jerking her around(don't tell her I said that). Practice makes perfect....not a silly saying...it is a fact of life
As far as the pro's shifting mad fast, they are speed shifting and it is very hard on the sychronizers of the transmission and eventually leads to grinding of the gears down the road(not to mention little slivers of metal in the tranny oil). You will get a feel for how fast you can shift as you gain experience. You can shift too fast and wear out stuff and break things inside. Do not force the issue when shifting unless you are willing to pay for the repairs. The MN6 or MN12 transmission can be shifted smoothly and quickly without forcing the issue.
N Dennis
Probably shifted into 2nd and let the clutch out quickly while engine was at idle and it threw you forward and then you hit the throttle and shot forward giving you that herky jerky feeling. I have done that in Vette a couple of times with my GF and she got whiplash from her tata's jerking her around(don't tell her I said that). Practice makes perfect....not a silly saying...it is a fact of life
As far as the pro's shifting mad fast, they are speed shifting and it is very hard on the sychronizers of the transmission and eventually leads to grinding of the gears down the road(not to mention little slivers of metal in the tranny oil). You will get a feel for how fast you can shift as you gain experience. You can shift too fast and wear out stuff and break things inside. Do not force the issue when shifting unless you are willing to pay for the repairs. The MN6 or MN12 transmission can be shifted smoothly and quickly without forcing the issue.
N Dennis
Yeah, you're probably right, I just need more practice. I think under 1 second is normal time for completion of whole shift. Besides, the vette is not made for us to beat on! We have civic's for that
How experienced are you with manual?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 57
From: Brentwood(Contra Costa County) CA
I have owned:
Honda CB360
Mercury Capri 2.8 4sp
Ford Courier 4speed
Ford Fiesta
Merkur XR4ti 5-sp
Ford 6.9 Diesel 5-sp manual
(2) Taurus SHO 5-sp(torque steer king)
Dodge D-50 Turbodiesel 5-sp
Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 6-sp
Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins 6-sp
Corvette Z06 6-sp(my first and only Chevy)
All together at least 500,000 miles or more. As long as I can move my left leg, foot and ankle, I will be shifting for myself.
N Dennis
Honda CB360
Mercury Capri 2.8 4sp
Ford Courier 4speed
Ford Fiesta
Merkur XR4ti 5-sp
Ford 6.9 Diesel 5-sp manual
(2) Taurus SHO 5-sp(torque steer king)
Dodge D-50 Turbodiesel 5-sp
Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 6-sp
Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins 6-sp
Corvette Z06 6-sp(my first and only Chevy)
All together at least 500,000 miles or more. As long as I can move my left leg, foot and ankle, I will be shifting for myself.
N Dennis
Last edited by cheetah45; Oct 20, 2008 at 02:00 AM. Reason: additional info
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 2
From: Chicago IL
I have owned:
Honda CB360
Mercury Capri 2.8 4sp
Ford Courier 4speed
Ford Fiesta
Merkur XR4ti 5-sp
Ford 6.9 Diesel 5-sp manual
(2) Taurus SHO 5-sp(torque steer king)
Dodge D-50 Turbodiesel 5-sp
Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 6-sp
Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins 6-sp
Corvette Z06 6-sp(my first and only Chevy)
All together at least 500,000 miles or more. As long as I can move my left leg, foot and ankle, I will be shifting for myself.
N Dennis
Honda CB360
Mercury Capri 2.8 4sp
Ford Courier 4speed
Ford Fiesta
Merkur XR4ti 5-sp
Ford 6.9 Diesel 5-sp manual
(2) Taurus SHO 5-sp(torque steer king)
Dodge D-50 Turbodiesel 5-sp
Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins 6-sp
Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins 6-sp
Corvette Z06 6-sp(my first and only Chevy)
All together at least 500,000 miles or more. As long as I can move my left leg, foot and ankle, I will be shifting for myself.
N Dennis
Now I bought this 94 civic 5-speed (we bought it hopefully to sell for a few hundred more, got it cheap). so i'm practicing on that now.
it's so difficult to find a car to practice on. most cars are auto's, and you cant just go out and buy a car just for learning.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
From: Santa Clarita Ca
I learned with a stick, however enjoy a auto as well. Mine is a 6 speed. Due to the simple fact that you have no experience with a stick, you may want to go auto. It will be expensive to replace clutches etc. on a vette. Not sure how long you have been driving but there is less to concentrate on with a auto as well. Being safe is important.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 2
From: Chicago IL
I learned with a stick, however enjoy a auto as well. Mine is a 6 speed. Due to the simple fact that you have no experience with a stick, you may want to go auto. It will be expensive to replace clutches etc. on a vette. Not sure how long you have been driving but there is less to concentrate on with a auto as well. Being safe is important.
You could be right but the other guys told me the vette's stick is not that bad. I also don't drive aggressively. I still have 2 months to decide
You are absolutely right though, you do get distracted (until you've driven sticks for a long time) but I think it's a necessary process. Even if I don't get a 6-speed vette, I still want to be able to drive sticks. They are better on gas and they give you better performance too. Until they make dual clutch for vettes, manuals will be the best.
Thanks for replying!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 2
From: Chicago IL
Sorry for this post, I know it's really irrelevant to C5 general discussion..
Anyway, I just drove like 1 hour total today (from 2 sessions) on that junk civic I mentioned. I think I improved a lot. I found a newly developed strip of road and I got up to 40 MPH. The thing is this junk's driver side headlight assembly is messed up and it doesn't give light to the road, and I can't see worth crap except where street lights are bright. So now I've hit 4th gear, I totally agree that 1st gear is the only hard part. Once past that, it's easy.
Would any of you manual experts please share tips on shifts? I've been in several stick cars and I notice that many people do not shift smoothly (and I know it's possible because I've done 2-3 and 3-4 shifts that I did not feel at all). Also, I understand the concept of downshift, but rev-matching is hard... could be just me, only driven a stick for less than 2 hours in my whole life though.
I'm definitely set on the 6-speed vette this winter as long as I can find one.. I think there are way more auto's than 6SPD in the market..
Anyway, I just drove like 1 hour total today (from 2 sessions) on that junk civic I mentioned. I think I improved a lot. I found a newly developed strip of road and I got up to 40 MPH. The thing is this junk's driver side headlight assembly is messed up and it doesn't give light to the road, and I can't see worth crap except where street lights are bright. So now I've hit 4th gear, I totally agree that 1st gear is the only hard part. Once past that, it's easy.
Would any of you manual experts please share tips on shifts? I've been in several stick cars and I notice that many people do not shift smoothly (and I know it's possible because I've done 2-3 and 3-4 shifts that I did not feel at all). Also, I understand the concept of downshift, but rev-matching is hard... could be just me, only driven a stick for less than 2 hours in my whole life though.
I'm definitely set on the 6-speed vette this winter as long as I can find one.. I think there are way more auto's than 6SPD in the market..
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 57
From: Brentwood(Contra Costa County) CA
"Would any of you manual experts please share tips on shifts? I've been in several stick cars and I notice that many people do not shift smoothly (and I know it's possible because I've done 2-3 and 3-4 shifts that I did not feel at all). Also, I understand the concept of downshift, but rev-matching is hard... could be just me, only driven a stick for less than 2 hours in my whole life though."
For me it is kinda hard to explain other than trial and error practice. Knowing how much throttle to let off(upshifting) or add(downshifting) is a matter of patient practicing. I do not usually downshift unless I am going downhill and I am trying to prevent speed buildup and not use the brakes excessively.
Each engine has different characteristics in decelleration when you let off the throttle in between shifts. As you push in the clutch, you need to back off on the throttle and this is where practice will tell you how much back off. It is not set in stone how much, but practice and experience will guide you on how much is needed. Really hard to put into words how to tell someone how to do it.
I say right now practice standing starts and as you upshift, try to concentrate on being smooth. So much easier to do and show by example than putting it on paper with words.
N Dennis
For me it is kinda hard to explain other than trial and error practice. Knowing how much throttle to let off(upshifting) or add(downshifting) is a matter of patient practicing. I do not usually downshift unless I am going downhill and I am trying to prevent speed buildup and not use the brakes excessively.
Each engine has different characteristics in decelleration when you let off the throttle in between shifts. As you push in the clutch, you need to back off on the throttle and this is where practice will tell you how much back off. It is not set in stone how much, but practice and experience will guide you on how much is needed. Really hard to put into words how to tell someone how to do it.
I say right now practice standing starts and as you upshift, try to concentrate on being smooth. So much easier to do and show by example than putting it on paper with words.
N Dennis
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 2
From: Chicago IL
"Would any of you manual experts please share tips on shifts? I've been in several stick cars and I notice that many people do not shift smoothly (and I know it's possible because I've done 2-3 and 3-4 shifts that I did not feel at all). Also, I understand the concept of downshift, but rev-matching is hard... could be just me, only driven a stick for less than 2 hours in my whole life though."
For me it is kinda hard to explain other than trial and error practice. Knowing how much throttle to let off(upshifting) or add(downshifting) is a matter of patient practicing. I do not usually downshift unless I am going downhill and I am trying to prevent speed buildup and not use the brakes excessively.
Each engine has different characteristics in decelleration when you let off the throttle in between shifts. As you push in the clutch, you need to back off on the throttle and this is where practice will tell you how much back off. It is not set in stone how much, but practice and experience will guide you on how much is needed. Really hard to put into words how to tell someone how to do it.
I say right now practice standing starts and as you upshift, try to concentrate on being smooth. So much easier to do and show by example than putting it on paper with words.
N Dennis
For me it is kinda hard to explain other than trial and error practice. Knowing how much throttle to let off(upshifting) or add(downshifting) is a matter of patient practicing. I do not usually downshift unless I am going downhill and I am trying to prevent speed buildup and not use the brakes excessively.
Each engine has different characteristics in decelleration when you let off the throttle in between shifts. As you push in the clutch, you need to back off on the throttle and this is where practice will tell you how much back off. It is not set in stone how much, but practice and experience will guide you on how much is needed. Really hard to put into words how to tell someone how to do it.
I say right now practice standing starts and as you upshift, try to concentrate on being smooth. So much easier to do and show by example than putting it on paper with words.
N Dennis
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 57
From: Brentwood(Contra Costa County) CA
You're probably right. I will continue to practice. One thing I do want to ask though. When you experienced drivers shift, do you feel any jerk at all? I mean it doesn't have to be a rough shift jerk, just a jerk that you can feel. You know when you drive an auto and it shifts, you can "feel" it too. Is that the same for sticks? Without anyone sitting next to me, I don't know if my shifts are good or bad.
I am not always perfectly smooth. Some vehicles are easier than others to be smooth in. I typically do not give whiplash either. I have about 600 hours flying small planes and hundreds of landings and most were acceptably smooth enough and a few were considered close to controlled crashes but I never damaged anything and I never set off the emergency locator transmitter(ELT). Every time I landed I always tried to make it smooth touchdown. Practice Practice Practice even for myself.
N Dennis
I am not always perfectly smooth. Some vehicles are easier than others to be smooth in. I typically do not give whiplash either. I have about 600 hours flying small planes and hundreds of landings and most were acceptably smooth enough and a few were considered close to controlled crashes but I never damaged anything and I never set off the emergency locator transmitter(ELT). Every time I landed I always tried to make it smooth touchdown. Practice Practice Practice even for myself.
N Dennis
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 2
From: Chicago IL
You're probably right. I will continue to practice. One thing I do want to ask though. When you experienced drivers shift, do you feel any jerk at all? I mean it doesn't have to be a rough shift jerk, just a jerk that you can feel. You know when you drive an auto and it shifts, you can "feel" it too. Is that the same for sticks? Without anyone sitting next to me, I don't know if my shifts are good or bad.
I am not always perfectly smooth. Some vehicles are easier than others to be smooth in. I typically do not give whiplash either. I have about 600 hours flying small planes and hundreds of landings and most were acceptably smooth enough and a few were considered close to controlled crashes but I never damaged anything and I never set off the emergency locator transmitter(ELT). Every time I landed I always tried to make it smooth touchdown. Practice Practice Practice even for myself.
N Dennis
I am not always perfectly smooth. Some vehicles are easier than others to be smooth in. I typically do not give whiplash either. I have about 600 hours flying small planes and hundreds of landings and most were acceptably smooth enough and a few were considered close to controlled crashes but I never damaged anything and I never set off the emergency locator transmitter(ELT). Every time I landed I always tried to make it smooth touchdown. Practice Practice Practice even for myself.
N Dennis
The driver is the only one enjoying the shifts.
