Forced Induction or All Motor?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,467
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From: 972 and 405
Forced Induction or All Motor?
Okay I am not new to the tuning community and have had a performance car before(not a Corvette). For the guys that choose to up the power using FI, whether it be turbo or supercharger and for the guys that choose to go all out motor, why did you choose that route? Not counting a good tune, are there any noticeable discrepancies in those routes. I know it would have alot to deal with the tune and quality of parts. But lets there is a 500hp NA and a 500hp FI car, both with quality tunes, is there any reason you chose one route over the other? Discuss
.
-Alex
.-Alex
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,754
Likes: 380
From: South Florida FL
Oh nice topic. There most likely no correct answer to this question, just opinions. what car did you have before?
me personal came from a Turbo 4 cylinder(4G63) making about 400+whp,
then came the vette, The low end torque and simplicity and reliability of N/A power is great and a whole new world to me.
But the technology of F/I has come along way. If you can do 500whp on straight pump gas. I'll go F/I simply because a 500whp n/a would be a bit radical, mostly because you'll need a pretty radical cam to make that power on a 346, If you're going big cubes, then you may be able to compensate on the cam.
long story short, F/I will be able to make that power with better street manners.
me personal came from a Turbo 4 cylinder(4G63) making about 400+whp,
then came the vette, The low end torque and simplicity and reliability of N/A power is great and a whole new world to me.
But the technology of F/I has come along way. If you can do 500whp on straight pump gas. I'll go F/I simply because a 500whp n/a would be a bit radical, mostly because you'll need a pretty radical cam to make that power on a 346, If you're going big cubes, then you may be able to compensate on the cam.
long story short, F/I will be able to make that power with better street manners.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,721
Likes: 4
From: Elizabethtown
Getting 500rwhp with a NA setup would require the best parts. You would prob end up spending close to what a supercharger package would cost from a supporting vendor. The "safest" you want to run on a stock bottom end is 550 rwhp. Having a Car That is close to 500rwhp NA would make the driveabilty not so pleasent. It would require a big cam and you will be bucking. I have a pretty decent sized cam and all bolt ons. My cam is 233/239. I buck at low Rpms. When it's cold 
It bucks like crazy. Sometimes it won't want to start either. I don't regret having a H/C car. I like the shaking and rumbling. It sounds mean(I have LT's, X-pipe, and exhaust). I will however go to a TT. Swap out a smaller cam and the ride will be smoother making more power. On a stock motor you will make more power going with a supercharger or TT.
It bucks like crazy. Sometimes it won't want to start either. I don't regret having a H/C car. I like the shaking and rumbling. It sounds mean(I have LT's, X-pipe, and exhaust). I will however go to a TT. Swap out a smaller cam and the ride will be smoother making more power. On a stock motor you will make more power going with a supercharger or TT.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,999
Likes: 312
From: P-town Baby! Virginia
just a matter of $$$ and what you want to live with. A stroker motor is bad a$$.....sounds killer and turns heads.....but do you want to live with it on a regular basis? I have a tt car that I really like.....very quiet and liveable....and super quick. From a purest point of view...many would say stroker...or stroker/nitrous...which is not a bad way to go. I really like a tt setup....and will probably do this again. Very quick and very liveable for almost any situation. We are seeing cars running over 600hp on the stock bottom end now...so the potential is there...it's up to you what you want. 
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,467
Likes: 8
From: 972 and 405
Oh nice topic. There most likely no correct answer to this question, just opinions. what car did you have before?
me personal came from a Turbo 4 cylinder(4G63) making about 400+whp,
then came the vette, The low end torque and simplicity and reliability of N/A power is great and a whole new world to me.
But the technology of F/I has come along way. If you can do 500whp on straight pump gas. I'll go F/I simply because a 500whp n/a would be a bit radical, mostly because you'll need a pretty radical cam to make that power on a 346, If you're going big cubes, then you may be able to compensate on the cam.
long story short, F/I will be able to make that power with better street manners.
me personal came from a Turbo 4 cylinder(4G63) making about 400+whp,
then came the vette, The low end torque and simplicity and reliability of N/A power is great and a whole new world to me.
But the technology of F/I has come along way. If you can do 500whp on straight pump gas. I'll go F/I simply because a 500whp n/a would be a bit radical, mostly because you'll need a pretty radical cam to make that power on a 346, If you're going big cubes, then you may be able to compensate on the cam.
long story short, F/I will be able to make that power with better street manners.
I just through that number out there as I knew both FI and NA were capable of that. But driveability is a definite consideration. I personally wanted to go with a nice bolt on setup and see what I could get. I do not want to drive a 500whp Vette that will idle like a drag car and not be as usefull as a DD. Just wanted to see what those people with bigger wallets think of.
A personal friend of mine has his C5 LS1 SCed and the Sc doesn't "come on" until 3k. So it remains very "humble" unless the throttle is being abused LOL.
-Alex
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,721
Likes: 4
From: Elizabethtown
If money wasn't and issue I think everyone would go FI. If you on a budget You can get a nice cam package. I don't DD my vette but it doesn't bother me that it bucks. What bothers me more is my clutch. It's a Spec 3+.It's a on off clutch. At first it sucked but I'm used to it now so it doesn't bother me. I'm 24 so a lot of little things don't really get to me yet.
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Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
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From: Northern Virginia
St. Jude Donor '08
A lot depends on how you are going to use the car. If you are going to road race the car I would lean toward NA. The FI cars tend to have heating issues and also have problems controlling the power. Actually, power not nearly as important as having a good suspension if you road race.
Now if you plan to drag race or just have fun on the street I would go FI for the following reasons. First, under non-boost conditions car behaves like a stock car. Second, you can get a lot more power with FI than going NA route. Third, HP for HP, FI is a lot less expensive and is a lot more scalable. You can easily increase HP by turning up the boost. Fourth, if you should ever sell the car you can remove FI and sell separately, and then sell car stock. Stock cars sell quicker and you will get more $$.
Now if you plan to drag race or just have fun on the street I would go FI for the following reasons. First, under non-boost conditions car behaves like a stock car. Second, you can get a lot more power with FI than going NA route. Third, HP for HP, FI is a lot less expensive and is a lot more scalable. You can easily increase HP by turning up the boost. Fourth, if you should ever sell the car you can remove FI and sell separately, and then sell car stock. Stock cars sell quicker and you will get more $$.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Kerrville, Texas USA Hook 'em Horns!
CentralTX Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
My car is NA. I am making 432 RWHP. The car has nice nice street manners and runs very well. I have a Centerforce dual friction clutch put in to handle the power. The clutch feels like stock.
The car is a bit loud though. When cruising at highway speeds in 6th gear, it's fine. But when I hammer it, it really attracts attention. Which sometimes can be a bad thing.
Overall, I'm very happy with the car but would love more power. The only way for me to do that besides FI would be a bigger nasty cam and I don't want to go that route.
The car is a bit loud though. When cruising at highway speeds in 6th gear, it's fine. But when I hammer it, it really attracts attention. Which sometimes can be a bad thing.
Overall, I'm very happy with the car but would love more power. The only way for me to do that besides FI would be a bigger nasty cam and I don't want to go that route.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: York PA
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Schaumburg IL
CI 7-8-9-11 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '06-'10, '13
A lot depends on how you are going to use the car. If you are going to road race the car I would lean toward NA. The FI cars tend to have heating issues and also have problems controlling the power. Actually, power not nearly as important as having a good suspension if you road race.
Now if you plan to drag race or just have fun on the street I would go FI for the following reasons. First, under non-boost conditions car behaves like a stock car. Second, you can get a lot more power with FI than going NA route. Third, HP for HP, FI is a lot less expensive and is a lot more scalable. You can easily increase HP by turning up the boost. Fourth, if you should ever sell the car you can remove FI and sell separately, and then sell car stock. Stock cars sell quicker and you will get more $$.
Now if you plan to drag race or just have fun on the street I would go FI for the following reasons. First, under non-boost conditions car behaves like a stock car. Second, you can get a lot more power with FI than going NA route. Third, HP for HP, FI is a lot less expensive and is a lot more scalable. You can easily increase HP by turning up the boost. Fourth, if you should ever sell the car you can remove FI and sell separately, and then sell car stock. Stock cars sell quicker and you will get more $$.
Took the words out of my mouth. Really boils down to what you are using the car for. The only big disadvantage I see going with the FI route is Heat, and that really only comes into play if you are going to race on a roadcourse.To get 500RWHP out of a 346ci.. you are going to need a huge cam. With FI, car will behave like stock. Now as a few others have said..if you went Big Cubes, that would obviously compensate for the cam a bit, and you would have a pretty streetable car... however as you probably know, replacing a whole engine is going to cost big $$$ compared to adding FI to a 346.
I went heads/cam, and wish I would have gone FI. I choose a mid-size cam, and AFR heads..making about 415rwhp. Although I dont have a huge cam, I would not go any bigger than what I have for drivability reasons.
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: ECS Sales & Service Advisor
Cruise-In III Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
A lot depends on how you are going to use the car. If you are going to road race the car I would lean toward NA. The FI cars tend to have heating issues and also have problems controlling the power. Actually, power not nearly as important as having a good suspension if you road race.
Now if you plan to drag race or just have fun on the street I would go FI for the following reasons. First, under non-boost conditions car behaves like a stock car. Second, you can get a lot more power with FI than going NA route. Third, HP for HP, FI is a lot less expensive and is a lot more scalable. You can easily increase HP by turning up the boost. Fourth, if you should ever sell the car you can remove FI and sell separately, and then sell car stock. Stock cars sell quicker and you will get more $$.
Now if you plan to drag race or just have fun on the street I would go FI for the following reasons. First, under non-boost conditions car behaves like a stock car. Second, you can get a lot more power with FI than going NA route. Third, HP for HP, FI is a lot less expensive and is a lot more scalable. You can easily increase HP by turning up the boost. Fourth, if you should ever sell the car you can remove FI and sell separately, and then sell car stock. Stock cars sell quicker and you will get more $$.
This is pretty much spot on.
I'm at 500 with a H/C package, but my cam is much less radical than most of the other NA cars producing that kind of number. I also tend to be an "old school" type.... I like the sound of a lopy cam, and the smell of race gas. So I actually wish my cam was a bit more lopy... lol
If I was pure street, or mostly street /drag, there is no doubt I'd put a Paxton on the car. Tons of power that is scalable, reliable, and proven. Add a blower to a cam, headers and a beefed up drive train you can run 9's in the 140's all day.
Here is my car, prior to it's final tune. And with a clutch that never seemed to smooth out (since changed it to a dual disk that has proven much better on the track and street) I still think it's pretty mild for something thats making right around 600@ the crank.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,467
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From: 972 and 405
I had a friend in a C6 nearly break an intake valve with a "stage 3" cam and had to get a different cam set.
So what is the heat issue then with SCed cars? I would assume that as with a turbo application that one with a FI car would obviously upgrade the cooling system too. Is that still not enough though?
-Alex
So what is the heat issue then with SCed cars? I would assume that as with a turbo application that one with a FI car would obviously upgrade the cooling system too. Is that still not enough though?
-Alex
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,420
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From: Boston MA
I plan on staying NA because most people, from what I've seen, are FI. I'm the type that dares to be different. During the spring, I'll do a H/C setup and upgrading to bigger cubes the next year or 2 after.
