Sport Auto. Both of them.


That is true. But unlike the the Hockenhiem times, The C5Z06 time is a factory claim run on an empty track while the 360CS time is from SportAuto. SportAuto can NEVER equal what the factory times for cars are. The factory claim for the C6Z06 is 7:42, the SportAuto time is 7:50. Other cars have a greater disparity. The point being, comparing factory claims to SportAuto times is unfair. And when SportAuto with a 360CS matches the factory claim for a C5Z06, it's a very good indication that the 360CS is FASTER.

Of course I'm not going to "cower down" if I ever have the pleasure of meeting one on the track. But if I am able to outlap it, I'll know it's due to the driving, not the car.

 

If you have seen that video 100 times, then you would know that is not a "street racing" video, but a video from one of the popular Supercar meets held in New York where the cops actually used to shut down cross traffic to the Long Island Sound Causeway (I believe is the name of the strip of road) so that the extic car guys could have a few runs in their cars.

Allow me to again post Gene's own words vizaviz the preformance of the C5 Z06 and the Ferrari 360CS - and again, an exhaust is hardly a serious mod as pretty much any Ferrari you come across has a Tubi system bolted up.

Why is it so hard to accept that the C5 Z06 was a toe to toe, blow by blow, neck and neck competitor to the 360CS and literally can blow the doors of the 360?

The bottomline again is that the C5 Z06 in stock trim and as new condition is a very capable car able to lap and run with the best of the day.

]
The C5 Z06 was never sold in Germany - why would SportAuto test it?

SportAuto tested a C5Z51 Comm. Edition I know. Where are the details of the C5 Z06 SportAuto tested?

And just so people are aware, the C5Z51 Comm. Edition Sportuto tested is a Euro unique model.

The exact details escape me now but I am willing to bet money on it being the heavier C5 Coupe body shape, with the 350bhp/360ftlbs LS1 engine, C5 magnesium wheels in C5 coupe widths show with Goodyear Runcraps, C5 Z06 shocks and sway bars, C5 Z06 Le Man Comm Edition graphics.

 

[QUOTE=Jameel;1567984387]^^
And guys, can we take modded cars out of the equation. Because if you mod your car they can mod their car. It becomes a never ending cycle.

Yes we are comparing dry weights, because a C5Z06 which is rated at 3118 lbs, once loaded up with fuel and fluids will weigh more. So when you compare the 360CS weight at 2800 lbs that’s dry, which is 318 lbs less than the dry weight of a C5Z06.
Honestly, it just boggles the mind that a car with less weight and more HP is getting beaten by a heavier car with less HP. Also the 360CS can pull-off perfect shifts every time all the time.
How does this make sense?! Maybe it’s the tires, I know the 360CS comes with sticky tires, maybe when you change the tires on the C5Z06 it evens the playing field?

Its called torque.


And like the other guy said that video looks like a closed road.

And Im sure those 360s have at least a tubi exhaust.

 

You are correct I haven’t been around the Corvette very long, 4 months to be exact and I’ve never had prior experience with Vettes. I’m not claiming I’m the end-all, be-all of Corvette knowledge. I knew it can run with a “base” 360 and 911 Turbo, I was just surprised a C5Z06 can hang with a 360CS and a Gallardo

Like I’ve said before, I never take Clarkson seriously, especially when it comes to American cars.

If the only mod you have is exhaust and you are keeping up with a 360CS that is impressive man . And I agree with you, I don’t consider an exhaust a mod really. What does it net you maybe 5 to 10HP. I guess I’ve underestimated the C5Z06.

Wow that’s relatively light, 3118 curb weight. That’s pretty impressive. So the dry weight of our car’s, is what, in the 3000 lb range?

I’m not trying to be self-deprecating; But nothing wrong with being realistic either. I try not to be a “fanboy” of any car, even one I own.
Yes, I know how good the C5Z06 is on road course, that’s the only reason I purchased a Z06 and not a base, automatic Vette.

 

[QUOTE=Torch FRC;1567986370]Actually that's the curb weight (full wet/full fuel)

As shipped (3-4 gallons fuel) from the factory, they were 3040 on the shipping invoice.

IIRC Ferrari typically posts their weights as dry weights.

 

Because it's not true. Why is it so hard to accept that a 3100 lbs, 405hp front engined car is slower than a 2900 lbs, 425 hp, sequential gearbox, mid engined car that posted quicker lap times and quicker acceleration times?

Hockenheim Short
C5Z06= 1:14.9
360 Modena= 1:15.1

Thunderhill Park
C5Z06= 2:08.39
360 Modena= 2:07.65

The C5Z06 is very close to the Modena. Not exactly blowing it's doors off.


I don't know. Maybe they liked it and recognized it as world class? The Z06 was a 2001 model tested in December of 2000.

Bad bet. The Comm. Edition run by SportAuto only managed a 1:15.9 on Hockenhiem short and a 8:18 on the Nordschleife.

 

Here is a link that lists the 360CS' curb weight at 2822 lbs. The car is around 300 lbs lighter than a C5Z06.

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2004/fer...107/specs.html

 

So now you are comparing a 2000 build 385bhp 385ftlb 2001 C5 Z06 with a 2004 360CS?

What a laugh. Seriously - the 2004 car has revalved shocks and 20 more ftlb and 20 more bhp.

Please post a scan of this purported SportAuto test.

If it was a ragged out press car, again how can you compare a test run in 2000 to a test run in 2004? The track had a newer surface in the mean time etc etc etc.

So many variables.

Ask some F360CS owners what their cars really weigh - I think you might be in for a little surprise.

 

So now you are saying that a 2004 Z06 is a lot faster than a 2001 Z06? So much faster it's worth a laugh? That 20hp is a lot but the 20 hp the 360CS has over the 2004 Z06 on top of the weight difference is somehow overcome? So do you think the 2004 Z06 is two seconds faster than the 2001 Z06 around Hockenhiem short?

 

I wish I could. Please find any SportAuto magazine scan from 2000 up on the web that can be linked to. There are none. So how am I supposed to find this one for you? Would you like to know where I am getting info?

 

You guys have some very selective memory when it comes to how fast something is.

A c5 zo6 was an amazing machine for its time, and could be also said that even today its still a very competent car.

But...

It never stayed toe to toe with any viper, unless you are comparing it to Gen 1 vipers 92-95. An ACR viper in the right hands of the era would run circles around the zo6.

The viper tested by Top gear was on a drenched track, while raining, so the time is useless for comparison sake. And the only viper that was officialy tested at the ring was a 2008 ACR. The times posted for older vipers are useless and meaning less.

 

Some of you ZO6 owners don't respect your own cars

 

That's rediculous. Respecting the car and knowing it's place are two different things. You don't need to think it's better than it is to respect it. The fact that the thing competes evenly with a 360 Modena and a 996 turbo is awesome enouph. As a matter of fact, if you go around talking up the car better than it is, you are not representing Z06 owners very well. It's kinda funny really. Everytime I try to correct people who say the EVO and STI are faster than the Z06, I use the very same lap times and I get called a Z06 fanboy!

 

Yes.

The 2004 C5 Z06 with improved shock valving and 20 mor ftlb and slightly different engine behaviour is faster with the same driver.

I know - I have lived with my 2001 C5 Z06 from bone stock with full cats to headers and tuning that gave me the missing 20ftlb and 20 bhp of the 2002 -2003 car, and then upgraded to the 2004 shock in lat 2003 as soon as they became available. I may have only been a member of Corvette Forum since 2003 but I have been a C5 Z06 owner since August 2002. The month 2001 Z06s became the "cheap brother".

Yes, the car was improved on over the years - and yes it became faster fo rthe same person driving it - and yes, a C5 Z06 can run door handle to dor handle with a 360CS on the street and on a track.

Yes it can.

Yes I would like to know. If you have the magazine in front of you, scan it/take digital photos for use to read.

And again, how laughable that yo uare comparing a year 2000 test to a year 2004 test.

I think you may have a selective memory. Here is a video test of a 2000 Cobra R vs 2000 ACR and 2001 C5 Z06.

Looks to me like they are dancing toe to toe and in the right hands are quite comparable.

Much like the C5 Z vs the 360CS.

Who cares abotu Top Gear? It is an entertainment show - good for laugh and cool videography, nothing else.

 

Wow. You just said that a 2004 Z06 is significantly faster than a 2001 Z06, but a 360CS is not faster than a 2004 Z06.

You forgot to explain how the 2004's added 20hp and shock valving makes it faster than a 2001 Z06, but the 360CS' added 20hp, 300 lbs less, sequential trans, and mid engine layout don't make it faster. You also forgot to answer if you think a 2004 Z06 is 2 seconds faster around Hockenhiem than a 2001 Z06, since that's what it would need to catch the 360CS.

 

Also, how do you explain Road and Track's test of Thunderhill on the same day with the same drivers where the regular 360 Modena beats the C5Z06? Must be that horrible slow 2001 model again, huh? So in your mind, is it like this?

2001 Z06 < 360 Modena < 360 SC < 2002-2004 Z06?

Damn, I never realized how awesome that 20hp was! After all, when I modded to get that 20hp (dyno proven) I couldn't even feel the difference.

 

Are you for real?

Same capable driver to same capable driver the 2004 C5 Z06 IS is faster than a 2001 C5 Z06 - faster in a straightline AND faster around corners.

I am seriously shocked at how self-depracating and clueless new comers to the Corvette fold are.

The care was IMPROVEd to make it FASTER - not slower.

John Heinricy, Corvette engineer and racing driver extraordinaire made sure it was.

He raced the car he helped design, and made sure it was faster and better at each iteration.

If you cannot understand or fathom how a shock valving improvement and a power upgrade can improve laptimes then that is YOUR problem not mone.

Maybe you are not the sports car enthusiast yo make yourself out to be.

The improvement that the 2004 shocks brought to my car were instantly noticable and made my car in my hands significantly faster and mor estable in the turns.

The shock valving changes were done at and to improve the handling on tracks like the Nurburgring with the payoff improving flat track handling well enough, that YES, the C5 Z06 can run and gun and dance toe to toe and lap righ tup with the Ferrari 360 Challeneg Stradale.

Why is it so hard fo ryou to believe this?

I have not claimed that the C5 Z06 is the be all and end all and is 1000% superior to a Ferrari in every respect and that Ferraris are rubbish and junk and undesirable.

I have simply said, that the C5 Z06 is ofetn under estimated and put down for littl ereason more than people are ill informed.

 

Of course the 2004 is faster than the 2001. By the slimest of margins. A lot slimmer than the margin between the 2004 Z06 and the 360CS. Simple as that. I can't believe you want to make a big deal of the tiny changes between the 2001 and 2004 Z06 and act like they make a big difference in lap times then at the same time say the 360CS is not faster than the Z06. How can it possibly not be faster? Oh, the curb weight number is a lie, Sport Auto used a ragged out car. What's next? Are millisecond shifts and mid engine layout over rated? is the C5 Chassis superior to the Ferrari chassis? Come on. What the big deal of admitting the 360SC is faster? Who cares? It doesn't mean the C5Z06 is slow or anything.

 

Yeah, I'm for real. Do you think a 2004 Z06 is 2 seconds faster around Hockenhiem short than a 2001 Z06? What is so hard to understand about the question?

 

The 03’- 05’ 360 CS was factory rated at 425 bhp & 275 ft lbs torque. Brake horsepower is not the same as the 405 sae net horsepower that the corvette is rated at.
Also look at the much lower torque rating compared to the 400 the ZO6 is rated at.
It takes torque to accelerate mass. I’m not surprised that the ZO6 is as fast or faster with those #’s