I've had my 2000 A4 for 10 months, now, stock it was a reasonable fast car...maybe a bit disappointing compared to modded cars I've owned. I expect more from a C5, but, oh well, it was still stock.

Still, it's my daily driver, so I wanted to skip any complicated mods and started with firming up the shift points with a Predator. I didn't want to use the Predator performance tune, since I wanted to use 89 or even 87 octane in an emergency. That helped some.

Anyway, I replaced the runflat tires. Wow. Huge seat of the pants difference, much better acceleration.

Well, today, after months of owning the Predator tuner, I decided to turn OFF torque management.

I just got back from the test drive, I think my face did one of these:



I've done some easy mods, just tires and a Predator tune and this car is completely different from the one I drove in February. The only "bad" part about this is, I could have done this months ago just by pushing a few buttons on my tuner.

 

Wow, glad to hear the simple mods worked out so well for ya.

 

now enjoy

 

So what exactly did you do to the shift points? I have a similar car to yours, same transmission, and lightly modded with BFG KDW 2s. Does the transmission mod help longevity or up performance of it with an obvious compromise for transmission life?

-Alex

 

Well, you MIGHT shorten life a tad I guess. It's heat that's your main enemy in the auto, and a lot of the heats going to come during the shifts due to slipage and 'overlap'. Might watch the trans temp but don't know if just these adjustments would cause any issues. I built the Hell outta mine and THEN did the reprogramming so don't have personal experience. Wouldn't think it would be a big deal, though could certainly be wrong.

 

Actually quicker, firmer shifts will help the life of your trans as there is less slippage and thus less heat and wear.

 

Hhmmm, guess I will look into this also. However I normally monitor my trans temp via the DIC, and notice no measurable heat increase during shifting. Mostly I can watch it increase just from being at a stop light. Anything else is gradual increase. Not to argue you guys, just my obvservations.

-Alex

 

Absolutely! But I'm assuming he just disabled TM and set the RPM/speed shift points in the PCM which doesn't really change how the clutches shift and the built in overlap, I don't think. Again ,I could be way off here. I might think about a Transgo kit to dial that out. You can get one installed for about 300, you don't have to pull the tranny for that. If your handy you can do it yourself, it's not that difficult. But just reprogramming like he did certainly shouldn't hurt anything.
Alex, it's not going to increase fast enough to see it during shifts, it would be more of a gradual buildup during hard driving like a track day or something. Normal driving or short bursts for giggles and the builtin cooler should keep you safe. After my build, and without a 2nd cooler my trans is running much cooler than the coolant temp by 20-30 degrees. The cooler you keep it, within reason, the longer it should last.

 

Congrats!

I remember when I got my 1st tune done and drove the car --- I went back to the shop and asked if he'd swapped my engine out for a stronger one!

Have fun!

 

Alex,

I'm not expert, but this is what I gather from reading this board, LS1Tech and doing a lot searches on the web.

The 460LE transmission found in the C5 Corvette and Camaro is marginal at best. (The original design dates back to 1982, after all.) In fact, the automatic transmission is only rated to handle a maximum 360 ft-lbs of torque (or so) from the factory.

That means any "real" mods to the A4 might require upgraded transmission components or much shortened transmission life. (Someone with more C5 mod experience will know much more! Not claiming to be an expert) That's put a lot of my mod plans on hold beyond the basics, until I know more about what this transmission can handle.

That means, from the factory, our automatics are operating at the margins of this transmission. In fact, it's my understanding that during certain conditions the engine can actually exceed the rating of the transmission. It seems to me that 2001 Corvettes actually exceed it's torque rating!

So, the question is, how does GM install get by with installing such a marginal transmission in a performance car? You'd expect transmission life to be compromised if it's working right at it's limits at wide open throttle.

The answer is torque management. It's an algorithm that cuts engine torque when the transmission shifts. It does this by pulling timing...a lot of timing. It will also cut power under other excessive maneuvers. It also makes shifts more comfortable.

I think manual cars do have some torque management, but it's not that big a deal. Torque management is really an A4 problem and, in my opinion, it really hurts performance considerably.

Disabling torque management is hotly debated on this forum and others. Some say it's ok to remove it, other say it isn't safe. The question is how much does it actually reduce transmission life? That probably depends on a lot of factors and no one really seems to know.

The Diablo predator will allow you to disable torque management entirely or the included "Diablo" tune will simply reduce it significantly, but leave some of it in place. The removal or reduction of torque management is why a generic handheld tuner gives respectable gains to A4 owners, while not doing all that much MN6 owners.

Increased shift pressure and reducing shift times has been proven to extend the life of transmissions (maybe more shock, but those components are cheap and easy to replace compared to a transmission). Auto companies install "lazy" shift patterns only for comfort. Obviously, extremely pressures could be a problem, but I don't think the Predator let's you do anything dangerous in that regard.

Now, on the other hand, perhaps quick, firm shifts (good for the transmission) counteracts the removal of torque management? No one seems to know for sure, but everyone has an opinion!

Bottom line: No torque management is a big improvement, at least for me. I'm still debating whether or not I want to keep it this way or simply going to reduced torque management through the Diablo Tune. I will NEVER go back to full torque management again, that's for certain.

Shift firmness and quick shifts stays for certain!

 

NoW change your rear end to a 3.42 and get TC......... You will then be real happy.

 

71 ---

FWIW, I had my TQ. Mgnt. deleted in 05 --- supercharged my car in 06 and my tranny is still stonger. (knocking on wood here)

I'm a mod/aggr. driver --- I have about 74xxx miles now and about 40k of those were AFTER my tune.

 

You guys have some great information here about the subject! I simply ask because plan to do more mods while keeping the car as close to a DD as possible. Would hate to have to buy another transmission and hate even more for horrid downtime. It seems the verdict is still out but, this however does make it easier to make a decision.

-Alex

 

Being a m6 guy,I had to read through a bit to get a handle on exactly torque management. Seems as long as you don't go nuts with line p reassure that removing (or at least seriously reducing) would be a good thing. That's what made shift kits so popular back in the day!! Their big selling point is improved performance and trans life due to reduction of slippage on shifts. Seems like a win win deal to me! Torque management for us manual guys is in our feet!!!

 

Is Torque Management the same thing as Traction Control? I have a 2004 C5 w/ an A4. Is turning off Traction Control the same as turning off Torque Management? I guess I am hoping it's not, because when I turn off Traction Control, I only get a miniscual amount of performance enhancement. My Vette really doesn't feel like it gets off the line very well. It just doesn't seem to pull like I would have expected. I was thinking of getting a HP Tuner to adjust timing and shift points. Does anyone know if HP Tuner can turn off Torque Management as well?

 

So....get off the forum and get driving! Just kidding. These cars have so much potential. It's amazing what little mods can do!

 

I wonder how much improvement in 1/4 mile ET you'd see in torque management removal... .1 or .2 ?

 

Hey, enjoy the improved driving experience

I personally wouldn't remove torque management. GM did quite a bit of testing and know what kind of abuse the driveline can survive and based the parameters of torque management on that data.

That said, only you know what you want out of your car....

 

You guys totally answered a lot of questions for me. This site is awesome. I need a different rear end too!

 

No, its not the same.