[Z06] Clutch question
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 231
From: Queen Creek AZ
Clutch question
As many of you know, I just purchased my 03 Z06 less than 2 weeks ago. After checking a few of the fluids on the car, and reading fluid related posts on this forum, I decided to have all the fluids replaced in my car. I have an appointment with the dealer for next Saturday. The clutch fluid for sure needs to be replaced (black and nasty looking).
That said, I took the car out today and got on it through the gears. It ran great through first and second gear, but when I hit third, it stumbled a little bit, and when it caught, the clutch started to slip. I let off immediately and shifted into fourth. I noticed that the clutch pedal was harder to push than before, and it grabbed very close to the floor. After driving a couple more miles and shifting into various gears, the pedal came back up where it was before, and the effort was back to normal. (Geez this is turning into an epic). My question is: Do you think the nasty fluid is the reason? If so, will replacing it make it all well again? Looking forward to your opinions.
Rich
That said, I took the car out today and got on it through the gears. It ran great through first and second gear, but when I hit third, it stumbled a little bit, and when it caught, the clutch started to slip. I let off immediately and shifted into fourth. I noticed that the clutch pedal was harder to push than before, and it grabbed very close to the floor. After driving a couple more miles and shifting into various gears, the pedal came back up where it was before, and the effort was back to normal. (Geez this is turning into an epic). My question is: Do you think the nasty fluid is the reason? If so, will replacing it make it all well again? Looking forward to your opinions.
Rich
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,534
Likes: 921
From: Communist Colorado
As many of you know, I just purchased my 03 Z06 less than 2 weeks ago. After checking a few of the fluids on the car, and reading fluid related posts on this forum, I decided to have all the fluids replaced in my car. I have an appointment with the dealer for next Saturday. The clutch fluid for sure needs to be replaced (black and nasty looking).
That said, I took the car out today and got on it through the gears. It ran great through first and second gear, but when I hit third, it stumbled a little bit, and when it caught, the clutch started to slip. I let off immediately and shifted into fourth. I noticed that the clutch pedal was harder to push than before, and it grabbed very close to the floor. After driving a couple more miles and shifting into various gears, the pedal came back up where it was before, and the effort was back to normal. (Geez this is turning into an epic). My question is: Do you think the nasty fluid is the reason? If so, will replacing it make it all well again? Looking forward to your opinions.
Rich
That said, I took the car out today and got on it through the gears. It ran great through first and second gear, but when I hit third, it stumbled a little bit, and when it caught, the clutch started to slip. I let off immediately and shifted into fourth. I noticed that the clutch pedal was harder to push than before, and it grabbed very close to the floor. After driving a couple more miles and shifting into various gears, the pedal came back up where it was before, and the effort was back to normal. (Geez this is turning into an epic). My question is: Do you think the nasty fluid is the reason? If so, will replacing it make it all well again? Looking forward to your opinions.
Rich
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Having the dealer "bleed" the clutch will not rid the hydraulics of accumulated clutch dust.
Rather you want to follow the protocol I've developed and documented. The repeated changes with driving in between will progressively scour the crud from the many eddies in the hydraulics.
At 6 years and 40K+ miles, if the clutch fluid has never been changed, there's a reasonable chance your master cylinder seals are damaged by the accumulated crud and failing to hold nominal pressure under max load.
So, suggest 10-20 swaps of the reservoir with driving after each swap. If that doesn't solve it, then replace just the master cylinder, cheapest main part in the hydraulics and accessible without opening up the drive line.
Ranger
Rather you want to follow the protocol I've developed and documented. The repeated changes with driving in between will progressively scour the crud from the many eddies in the hydraulics.
At 6 years and 40K+ miles, if the clutch fluid has never been changed, there's a reasonable chance your master cylinder seals are damaged by the accumulated crud and failing to hold nominal pressure under max load.
So, suggest 10-20 swaps of the reservoir with driving after each swap. If that doesn't solve it, then replace just the master cylinder, cheapest main part in the hydraulics and accessible without opening up the drive line.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Jul 26, 2009 at 01:37 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,847
Likes: 795
From: Longview Texas
Just wanted to make sure you realized that to bleed the clutch, the dealer will have to drop the drive train, so it could be expensive.
Try refreshing the clutch fluid by replacing the reservoir fluid first.
Try refreshing the clutch fluid by replacing the reservoir fluid first.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 231
From: Queen Creek AZ
The dealer gave me a quote of $75, so I doubt they are actually going to bleed the entire system. Probably all they will do is replace what is in the master cyl. I will know for sure next Saturday.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 231
From: Queen Creek AZ
Having the dealer "bleed" the clutch will not rid the hydraulics of accumulated clutch dust.
Rather you want to follow the protocol I've developed and documents. The repeated changes with driving in between will progressively scour the crud from the many eddies in the hydraulics.
At 6 years and 40K+ miles, if the clutch fluid has never been changed, there's a reasonable chance your master cylinder seals are damaged and failing to hold nominal pressure under max load.
So, suggest 10-20 swaps of the reservoir. If that doesn't solve it, then replace just the master cylinder. Cheapest main part in the hydraulics and accessible without opening up the drive line.
Ranger
Rather you want to follow the protocol I've developed and documents. The repeated changes with driving in between will progressively scour the crud from the many eddies in the hydraulics.
At 6 years and 40K+ miles, if the clutch fluid has never been changed, there's a reasonable chance your master cylinder seals are damaged and failing to hold nominal pressure under max load.
So, suggest 10-20 swaps of the reservoir. If that doesn't solve it, then replace just the master cylinder. Cheapest main part in the hydraulics and accessible without opening up the drive line.
Ranger
Thanks, Rich
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Those steps provide a blind reach to the bleed valve nut at the top of the clutch acttuator (slave). Spent fluid then dips into the bell housing, subsequently to be slung around inside the bell housing once the car is driven.
This method also raises a likelihood for air to be introduced to the hydraulics during the bleed, thereby changing the clutch engagement point negatively.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Jul 26, 2009 at 12:46 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,393
Likes: 17
From: Belleville Mich.
Basically, what members are telling you is to NOT take your car in for the clutch fluid switch out. Follow Ranger's proceedure. You can buy a 120z container of Prestone syn Dot 4, at Walmarts for less than $2.75 I suggest, picking up 3 to 4 bottles, to carry you through the continuos change outs over the coming weeks. I,ve been using Ranger's suggestion since day one, when I bought my Z new. Never had it in the shop for clutch related issues. Good luck.
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Racer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 385
Likes: 1
From: Chapel Hill North Carolina
No doubt a complete fluid change would be in order this will remove any doubt related to when the previsous owner performed maintenance. If you could find a reputable Corvette shop to perform the maintenance it will save you a lot of money related to labor and you can purchase your own fluids if they don't have what you want. The Ranger method is a good one. When you do a clutch change install a remote clutch bleeder then. This will make the clutch fluid change easier. You mentioned complete fluid change I assume you are doing the brakes too? If so use the same fluid for clutch that you use for the brakes.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 231
From: Queen Creek AZ
OK. So today I changed the fluid in the master cyl. using the "Ranger" method. Wow was it NASTY!!! I was able to do about 4 or 5 complete changes. Each time I sucked out the old fluid (using a turkey baster), I replaced it with new. After filling the cyl. up with new fluid, old fluid would seep up from the inlet in the bottom of the cyl. Kinda reminded me of the U.S.S Arizona memorial in Pearl Harbor that, after all these years, still leaks oil to the surface of the water. Anyway, I plan on doing a change each night this coming week after work, and hopefully by next weekend it will be clean. Thanks again Ranger for all the info, and to everyone for all your helpful answers.
Rich
Rich
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
OK. So today I changed the fluid in the master cyl. using the "Ranger" method. Wow was it NASTY!!! I was able to do about 4 or 5 complete changes. Each time I sucked out the old fluid (using a turkey baster), I replaced it with new. After filling the cyl. up with new fluid, old fluid would seep up from the inlet in the bottom of the cyl. Kinda reminded me of the U.S.S Arizona memorial in Pearl Harbor that, after all these years, still leaks oil to the surface of the water. Anyway, I plan on doing a change each night this coming week after work, and hopefully by next weekend it will be clean. Thanks again Ranger for all the info, and to everyone for all your helpful answers.
Rich
Rich
Unlike the C6, the C5 hydraulics don't self mix well with just top-to-bottom pedal pumps. Car needs to be driven to mix new and old fluids to scour the crud out and up to the reservoir.
Ranger
Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 670
Likes: 28
From: Mitchell SD
If you're taking it to a dealer get ready to bend over. They will tell you a bunch of other things that the car needs done which it probably doesn't need and there's a good chance they will screw the car up worse than it was before they touched it. Plus it will probably get a really brutal test drive.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 231
From: Queen Creek AZ
Rich
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
Ranger
Racer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: Springdale AR
The clutch fluid swap worked okay for me, but the clutch pedal still never felt right until I started doing a full bleed every now and then. It's pretty easy to do, although you do have to drop the center exhaust section and remove about 34 bolts to get the tunnel plate off. Finding the bleed bolt is pretty easy, and I've never had any issues with fluid getting into the bell housing. The pedal always feels so much better after a full bleed, and it's amazing the amount of dirty fluid that gets flushed out as opposed to doing 10 or more fluid swaps at the master reservoir. With my car, it really feels like I have a new clutch system after I do a full fluid swap (usually about 8 to 10 bleed cycles).
Hopefully Ranger's method works for you. If you still have issues, try bleeding the whole system several times. If that still doesn't work, then it's time to start changing hydraulic parts. My brake pedal has never felt that great, so I'll be doing a full bleed of the brake system this fall sometime when I put new rotors and pads on.
Hopefully Ranger's method works for you. If you still have issues, try bleeding the whole system several times. If that still doesn't work, then it's time to start changing hydraulic parts. My brake pedal has never felt that great, so I'll be doing a full bleed of the brake system this fall sometime when I put new rotors and pads on.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
I was out the other day in the Bro's 2001 Z06 and di a couple of high RPM shifts. The clutch pedal went limp and stuck on the floor.
The fluid in the clutch slave was clean and still is. It's my guess that as time goes on the fingers of the clutch weaken from heat and eventually fail.
Not to say that the clutch slave and hydraulic system have some part in the failure.
Once you get the sticky pedal clutch syndrome, it's pretty much time to pull it all out and figure out what's wrong.
The fluid in the clutch slave was clean and still is. It's my guess that as time goes on the fingers of the clutch weaken from heat and eventually fail.
Not to say that the clutch slave and hydraulic system have some part in the failure.
Once you get the sticky pedal clutch syndrome, it's pretty much time to pull it all out and figure out what's wrong.
The clutch fluid swap worked okay for me, but the clutch pedal still never felt right until I started doing a full bleed every now and then. It's pretty easy to do, although you do have to drop the center exhaust section and remove about 34 bolts to get the tunnel plate off. Finding the bleed bolt is pretty easy, and I've never had any issues with fluid getting into the bell housing. The pedal always feels so much better after a full bleed, and it's amazing the amount of dirty fluid that gets flushed out as opposed to doing 10 or more fluid swaps at the master reservoir. With my car, it really feels like I have a new clutch system after I do a full fluid swap (usually about 8 to 10 bleed cycles).
Hopefully Ranger's method works for you. If you still have issues, try bleeding the whole system several times. If that still doesn't work, then it's time to start changing hydraulic parts. My brake pedal has never felt that great, so I'll be doing a full bleed of the brake system this fall sometime when I put new rotors and pads on.
Hopefully Ranger's method works for you. If you still have issues, try bleeding the whole system several times. If that still doesn't work, then it's time to start changing hydraulic parts. My brake pedal has never felt that great, so I'll be doing a full bleed of the brake system this fall sometime when I put new rotors and pads on.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
Likes: 31
From: Central Florida
I was out the other day in the Bro's 2001 Z06 and di a couple of high RPM shifts. The clutch pedal went limp and stuck on the floor.
The fluid in the clutch slave was clean and still is. It's my guess that as time goes on the fingers of the clutch weaken from heat and eventually fail.
Not to say that the clutch slave and hydraulic system have some part in the failure.
Once you get the sticky pedal clutch syndrome, it's pretty much time to pull it all out and figure out what's wrong.
The fluid in the clutch slave was clean and still is. It's my guess that as time goes on the fingers of the clutch weaken from heat and eventually fail.
Not to say that the clutch slave and hydraulic system have some part in the failure.
Once you get the sticky pedal clutch syndrome, it's pretty much time to pull it all out and figure out what's wrong.
Lot of shops and dealers prey on owners by urging the replace-everything approach to pedal issues. Owners who follow that approach soon find pedal issues with the new clutch too and their wallets are $1200-2200 lighter.
The conservative approach is always keeping the clutch fluid clean to prevent the hydraulics from failing and keeping the engine torque within the clamping capability of the clutch that's in the car. Do that and you eliminate pedal issues.
Ranger
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: Fenton MI
My solution was...
I tried changing the fluid many, many times. I then did the PITA process of bleeding the system by use of the stock bleeder, which was not fun. The I replced the clutch to an RPS, and new slave. PROBLEM SOLVED!!! Next time I wont waste my time changing fluid and bleeding the system once these syptoms are experienced as you described.