BTW i used distilled water. like Zee0Six mentioned it is .75 at any grocers.

 

Oh, really ... read these.

http://www.finishing.com/147/97.shtml

http://www.ece.rutgers.edu/~maparker...%20no%20DI.htm

 

this doesnt prove anything. nor disprove anything. those pages are like reading the DMV office rules of ettiquette - completely useless. no offence.

By pointing to a page on the internet, hosted for a company that cannot for a second be thought as a authoritative source for this sort of information, wouldnt help your argument wrong or correct. Then the second one is by an academic, for academic purposes. It isnt conclusive or authoritative in its discussion. Also, big difference b/w academia and practice.

Also this page is a back and forth between individuals with anecdotal data. not an educated study or discussion b/w informed individuals.
By informed i dont mean someone with just a, ME, MS , PHD in a related field. Unless directly involved they too make plenty of mistakes and buy into many myths as well.

Most importantly, what they are discussing and what we are isnt same. They are talking about an open system, cooling systems are sealed. They mention water's tendency to seek equilibrium over time, which we couldnt care less about.
Ionization would make sense if the cooling system was made of pure Na or sodium. But in this case you would have an explosion and wipe out the next block moment you pour in any water.

here's one with vested interest in making sure info is correct:
http://www.peakauto.com/faq.html

 

The use purified water (distilled or deionized water) is preferable as minerals deposits ( a local and regional issues ) and the abrasive wear are negative factors when flowing thru an alloy radiator.

Most antifreeze forumals incorporate silica to keep metal surfaces clean so as to promote water to metal contact and dissipate heat. Diesel engine require NO Silica formulas.

Mgf'ers also advise to pre mix water and antifreeze before adding to cooling system.

Fleetguard markets a prexmix , no silica formula that I use. I also test for PH levels ( high PH contributes to scale).

 

I am no chemist nor automotive cooling system engineer- no advice is being offered, just my own experience.

Since 1973 I have used distilled water in my car radiators along with appropriate mix of anti-freeze. I keep my cars an average of 6 to 12 years and put between 75,000 and 125,000 miles on them. I haven't had any unusual problems - and aluminum engine blocks have not had any issues. Of course occasionally water pumps wear out - this is normal wear and tear.

I lived in an area having hard ( calcium) water- thus the main reason for distilled water. I would probably have used plain old clear tap water if free from calcium and other hard minerals.

In my view- what's much more important is draining or flushing the cooling system no less frequently than every two years. Keeping the coolant mix fresh and clean.

That's just my 35 years experience on the topic.

No offense- but this seems like another forum over discussed and over analyzed topic...
YMMV-

 

interesting why is that?

I completely agree that distilled or de-ionized water is preferable.


How do i do this? I have just never learned to do this myself. I just flush it every 2 or 3 years.

 

where can you buy the testing strips and how much?

 

You mean like Wikipedia? ... see your red text above. I'm not the only one who knows that de-ionized water is "hungry water" and wants to react with everything it comes into contact with. You did read this thread from the beginning and see the other inputs about de-ionized water, right? But, it really doesn't matter, because you can use whatever you wise (stay away from sulfuric acid though ) ... it's you car. But if I had the choice between distilled and de-ionized, I'd take the former every time.

 

wikipedia doesnt say any where that de-ionized water is bad for a cooling system. And it is an authoritative source.
here is an excerpt from the antifreeze page:

"Distilled or deionized water is preferable to tap water for use in automotive cooling systems.[5] The minerals and ions typically found in tap water can be corrosive to internal engine components, and can cause a more rapid depletion of the anti-corrosion additives found in most antifreeze formulations.[6][7] Distilled or deionized water is especially important in automotive hybrid system component cooling systems, mixed with hybrid system coolant, to prevent corrosion and/or electrolysis of hybrid components.[8]"

PS: the hybrid coolant (HOAT) they mention is the Zerex-05.

All i am saying is dont buy the myth about de-ionized water, wholesale.
I did a search and looks like number of mfgs suggest using just that.

Anyways good discussion, eh?

 

... sure.

See Question #2. Distilled water is more pure than DI water. Obviously, some people might recommend it for cooling system use ... but why when distilled is so easy to get and is more pure anyway.

http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1743

From another "unauthorized source":

"The disadvantage of deionized water is that it is very corrosive to metal. Since it has no dissolved solids in it, water will seek equalibrium with whatever it contacts. So water with a pH of 7.0 can dissolve metal pipe. Especially yellow metals like copper and brass. It is also very aggressive to mild steel or "black" iron, and forget about glavanized pipe. Piping that resists the effects best is PVC or glass."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_t...eionized_water

 

A no silica engine coolant formula is called out for all diesel engines as engine coolant is monitored closely primarily for cylinder liner cavitation ( liner pitting), corrosion, and anti freeze protection. A SCA ( supplemental coolant additive. I use DCA4) which is borate/nitrite & molybdate is used to keep cylinder liner pitting under control. If silicates were also present it would combine with the SCA and form a silica gel and drop out of the coolant and plug coolant passages.

Coolant test strips ( I use Freightliner 3 way strips 4 pack, or you can buy them individually as the test strips have a expiration date). Freeze point , molybdate, nitrite (SCA), and PH are measured with the 3 way test strips. I use a refactometer to verify the freeze points of all my vehicles. You buy coolant test strips at any diesel parts house, Napa Auto, ect. (FYI; the Dodge/ Cummins B5.9/ISB 5.9 does not require the same monitoring as the engine is a cast block and not 'wet liner' configuration).

Coolant PH is another factor that increases deterioration of the coolant system.

 

Another "unauthorized" article:

"Deionization is the removal of ions –positive (cation) and negative (anion) – in the water. Deionized water is can be very aggressive and can cause corrosion. It will react with anything it comes in contact with especially metals and alloys like calcium, magnesium, copper and stainless. Corrosion of the storage container is a natural consequence if you’re not using the right type to store deionized water."

http://www.articledashboard.com/Arti...hniques/954173

 

LTdriver; any diesel part store will have test strips ( I buy a Freightliner four pack, or Fleetguard) I pay $6.50 ( if you want just one strip , they usually just give it to you, no charge) Or if you want to test just the PH you can use swimming pool / hot tub PH test strips , I've done that in a pinch and $6.00 buys 25-30strips.

 

I dont want to get into a back and forth on this as it seems that your counter arguments dont support your position.

the site you pointed to says:
http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1743
"On the other hand, many websites have warnings that deionized water is dangerous because it is ’too pure’. These warnings are pure nonsense."

And i maintain wikipedia is authoritative source. True there are mistakes caught from time to time, but i can point you to atleast 10 very well known engineering books that have plenty of mistakes and yet are considered "bibles", thus authoritative text, of the field.

Dont go by any and every site you can hit up online. A 9year old could have written that page. what you need is a reply from someone like SAE, or IEEE or whatever physics association there is.

you dont need pure water (DI) to corrode metal. water by itself regardless of its purity will form metal oxides in contact surfaces with metal. Water with impurities will do that as well. Salt water is known to corrode metal with great enthusiasm.
The key issues here is what would DI/Distilled water do ***when used with*** antifreeze.

"unauthorized source"
sources dont need be authorized, but they should certainly be or considered authoritative.

thanks!

 

What about RO water?

 

Sure they do ... my position is deionized water is much more aggressive and corrosive than distilled water.

Shaggy911 - prove to me that mixing deionized water with antifreeze takes away deionized water's hungry/aggressive/reactive properties. Where is your so called "authoritative" source for that info?

You keep missing the point that deionized water is much more aggressive and corrosive that distilled water or just plain tap water. You haven't read a word I've shown to prove this point. Guess if it doesn't say it in Wikipedia, then you won't believe it.

Why don't you go buy some deionized water, some distilled water and get some tap water and do your own little corrosion experiment to prove it to yourself.

They are talking about drinking DI water. Apparently, it's not too "pure" to drink.

You forgot to look at this article and who the "authority" was making this claim. I think he's a little older than 9.

"Jo is a writer for ‘The-Water-Company.com’ (www.the-water-company.com), an established UK stationed high quality water supplier for more than thirty years, supplying products like deionized water and demineralized water to a wide range of customers in UK, Europe and all over the world."

 

Anything beyond tap water, distilled water, of filtered tap water (if a lot of sediment)- is way over the top.

This is not brain surgery - water mixed with antifreeze and drain and refill at least every two years.....End of story

Yes - eventually your water pump and radiator will need replacment. Even if you are using "heavy water" from a nuclear reactor

Happy Holidays !!!

 

Why mix your own? Everyone sells premixed coolant for cheap, with the proper protection for aluminum engines compontents and radiators.

Merry Christmas from DeWitt's Radiator

 

Ditto and hilarious! These guys remind me of all the spring butt Captains I went to flight school with....gallons of intellect, a table spoon of common sense.

 

Why you're no fun at all! These great forum debates on such interesting topics as distilled versus tap water and Mobil 1 oil versus Amsoil are what we live to read about. One we've missed though is a debate on winshield wipers