In the long run. Your fuel system will suffer and need to be replaced. Why do you think vehicles from the manufacturers state FLEXFUEL or E85. You will ruin your cars by putting it in them if they are not E85 capable. Did you get rid of your OLD CARS before the problems start up? And then they are someone's else headache?

E85 is not like the Gas with with the 10% mix in it, it is 85% alcohol and 15 % gasoline, This is what destroys the fuel system.

Bottom line, not flexfuel/E85 capable, then don't do it. and if anyone wants to save a few pennies then go ahead, it will cost dollars later............

 

You say this based on what data/experience?

If anybody cares to actually educate themselves on the subject, and hear from other LSX owners running E85 instead of listening to people like the poster above with no knowledge or experience, they should check out this: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/fuelin...r-ls1-e85.html

Seriously, what is it about E85 that makes everybody think they're an expert and should bestow their opinions upon us poor simpletons?

If you do not have data, factual information, or personal experience on the topic of E85 just keep your uneducated options to yourselves!

-TJ

 

Once again, the fathom less wealth of "Internet Engineering" springs forth once more. If E85 was so easy to do, WHY doesn't Chevrolet distribute this wonder drug of information to it's now starving dealerships so they Too, could cash in on this nonsense. And why do certain individuals pander this kind of next to useless plots to mislead and confuse the motoring public. E85 isn't even use in Europe, why, simple, the MPG would plummet putting the automakers vehicles smack up against the current EPA's guidlines for requuired mileage of all late model cars. And where are you software analysist and shade tree mechanics to be found when some poor dumb jerk decides to 'Retrofit' his automobile for E85. What is your college degree in ? Seat of the pants engineering? Or Engine diasters 101 ?

And yes, I have investagated the subject with both famous modern Automotive restoration and custominzing shops on the East coast and with Chevrolet Technical support, all of whom wondered why on earth someone would want to remanufacture a perfectly stable engine platform, and convert it to be a Flex-fuel vehicle. Why don't you go BUY A FLEX-FUEL VEHICLE if you want one. The pool of shade tree mechanic / internet engineering has once more surmounted and new and infamous crest.

 

thanks for all the good info TJ.

i'm about to revamp my fuel system since i am going twin turbo and am planning on converting to E85.

 

You may also think about the fact that alcohol absorbs water,ask any drag racer who runs on it and hear the nightmare stories they have.

 

So just because I'm a little confused, I have a supercharged 04Z, 60 pound injectors and all the goodies 581rwhp @8psi 18degees timing. E-85 can be used straight or mixed with 93. Car was tuned for93.

 

Actually, my degree is a BS in Computer Science, thanks for asking. How about yours? You might want to work on your spelling a bit (which is especially sad since nearly every browser now will do spell-checking in web forms for you) before you start trying to question anybody's level of education.

There are a few reasons GM doesn't "distribute this wonder drug" as you call it. The first, and largest reason is availability. The E85 infrastructure is not nearly built-out enough for the average consumer to consider it an option. GM looks at numbers, and currently the percentage of their prospective customers that have access to E85 is just too small. Second, as I already pointed out E85 actually offers very little (if any) advantage in a Daily Driver or Grocery Getter. The US Government pushes E85 as a green-fuel that can be developed on our own soil. That is the advantage GM and the US Government are pushing, NOT any performance gains. Unfortunately, the facts of the E85 production process, as well as the impact E85 production has on other commodities (namely livestock which depends on corn for feed) end up making E85 far from a true green, or particularly viable solution. Lucky for us enthusiasts there's enough politicians from corn-growing states to keep the E85 train chugging along, despite it's obvious flaws as a green, domestically produced fuel solution.

I assume you're aware though that GM's FlexFuel cars run E85 though? Here's a GM FlexFuel fuel cap:


And besides all of that, GM is an extremely poorly run business. Why should I, or anybody look to what GM has, or hasn't done and consider it as an example of forward-thinking or solid decision making or good business practice?

And no, Europe hasn't turned (in any large way) to E85. But they also have a huge selection of small diesel-powered vehicles that offer 50+ mpg (better than any Prius or Insight can manage). Unfortunately over here our regulations and the public's general disposition against diesel have kept these cars from our market. VW has had limited success with its TDI line, but it's gaining a lot of momentum. BMW and Mercedes are introducing additional diesel models to our market which are gaining popularity. However, we still don't have any of the sub-compact diesel economy cars (which get 50+ mpg).

Of course, Europe largely doesn't embrace gasoline, so by your logic we shouldn't consider it a viable option either right?

And I'm curious if your contacts on the East Coat would wonder "why somebody would want to remanufacture a perfectly stable engine platform" to make it produce twice the factory power output? The reason is because we are enthusiasts and we're always looking for ways to improve our vehicles. If there's a better cam, or cylinder head out there I'm probably going to try it. Just like I'm willing to try a better fuel like E85.

This is indeed one of the biggest drawbacks of any alcohol based fuel. E85 is better than the pure-alcohol the drag racers you referred to use, but it does still absorb more water than gasoline. Nothing is perfect, and any modification (fuel included) has its drawbacks. The E85 stations I use are very busy, so their fuel turn-over is high. On top of that I don't let my E85 sit too long in my car. I'm willing to deal with that potential issue for all of the advantages I get from E85. I never said E85 was perfect, nor the right fuel for everybody.

You will absolutely need a tune to run E85. At nearly 600 RWHP 60# injectors might cut it on E85, but I would go to 80s. I have 80s in my car, and at 610 RWHP they were only in the low-60% duty cycle range. So at the same power-level 60# injectors "should" still be below or around 80% duty cycle which is still very safe. However, with E85 even at the same boost #s you're going to be able to run a lot more timing (again, keep in mind it's 104 octane and also has a cooling-effect which quells the potential for detonation) and generate a good bit more power. But the real gains in a supercharged car like yours would be the ability to run a few more lbs of boost and really up the power production. I wouldn't be surprised if a pulley change, tune, and the fuel system to support E85 on your application netted you nearly 100 RHWP. In that case I'm fairly certain you'd need 80# injectors.

-TJ

 

Wow. There is a lot of stupid in this thread.

 

Yep people will keep looking for an answer that they want to see, so that they can do what they are thinking of doing and not feel that it is wrong.

Like the person who wants to know that if he cuts his leg off, will it hurt. After going to one hundred doctors who tell him it will hurt, he finally finds one who states that if you cut it with a three edged blade, then it won't hurt. So he goes looking for a three edged blade.......

As said before, anyone who wants to go ahead and put E85 into a vehicle that was not specifically designed for it, GO FOR IT. Cause I won't. I like my car.. No argument, cause it's just too easy to Google it and find the truth...................NOUGH

 

Does a tuner like the DiabloSport support these tuning parameters? I'm new with mine..

 

I don't believe so, You would need a custom tune.

 

Hummm, ever wonder why you don't see any hot cars doing FlexFuel? The car I do have (truck actually) that uses E85 has 2 fuel maps-1 for gas one for E85 and the system can determine what your burning and adjust on the FLY. I think in general E85 is not all it's cracked up to be-cost wise PER MILE, it's about the same as gasoline since it has less energy in it-it does run cleaner and is "renewable". Hybrid, electric, fuel cell, Natural Gas will dominate soon and E85 will be a blip on the radar.

 

I don't know, the two Corvette Racing cars run E85...does that count?

Nick

 

I know of many 500+ rwhp cars in MN that are running E85. I know they have been for years. It is becoming more popular as a race fuel around here. The only thing keeping me from converting my sc mustang is lack of wanting to put a bandaid pump instead of the full $1500 fuel system I need to support the motor I plan in the later future. My car is fine right now so it can wait.

 

"That is the advantage GM and the US Government are pushing, NOT any performance gains. Unfortunately, the facts of the E85 production process, as well as the impact E85 production has on other commodities (namely livestock which depends on corn for feed) end up making E85 far from a true green, or particularly viable solution. Lucky for us enthusiasts there's enough politicians from corn-growing states to keep the E85 train chugging along, despite it's obvious flaws as a green, domestically produced fuel solution."


Ok, Whatever you say. Oh, And good luck with your Agricultural Stock Portfolio. Ethanol is great as a Oxygenizer, but the common drawback like mixing steel, alcohol/water and oxygen, which equals = RUST! doesn't make a good plan. And then there's the poor gas/alcohol mileage. Overall, it just doesn't make sense? Why not just go with a turbocharged engine? But as you have so eloquently mentioned, the agricultural lobbyist are right there collecting their government subsistences come election time. E85 is not a good base fuel, Bowling Green already built a E85 Corvette in 2007 I believe, A Green and White pace car, as a one off it worked very well. But it would never fly as a continuous build, it is simply a waste. But the technology is out there, but so are lots of other economic mountains to climb. For a company like General Motors, it's simply not worth the effort and cost to build.

But Hay, good luck with your efforts. I think I spelled Good Luck correctly didn't I ?

 

I think most of the uninformed posts are because it's not common place enough for Corvette owners to make the switch and they just don't understand. Coming from the Subaru community I know it's not all bad and vehicles that weren't "designed to run E-85" can run it with great success. Thanks for the informative posts on the issue.

 

 

Wow... Another post ignoring the commonly discussed issue: There isn't an E85 infrastructure. There's a lot of very ignorant people out there that are too lazy to do the research on their own so they just follow. They follow and they follow. They follow anyone who acts like they know what they're talking about. They follow anyone who will lie about what they're talking about. And they follow anyone who has a vested interest in anything that contributes to their well-being. You don't see OPEC investing money into new battery technology do you?! Of course not.

So E85 has a crappy infrastructure because there is such a large opposition to it. There's opposition from those who have an investment into other energy sources like hydrogen, natural gas, or oil. There's opposition from those that are followers that didn't do any research on their own and/or listens to stupid opinionated news reports from corrupt network television. And of course, there's opposition from people whom are afraid of change.

Natural Gas is not a great option. CNG has less energy density than E85. In addition there are very few stations that can fill up CNG because of safety laws regarding the tanks the CNG is stored in. The vehicles are required to carry tanks for the CNG that are ridiculously big and heavy and are pressurized at over 4000PSI in some cases.

Hybrid technology has nothing to do with this conversation at all. Sorry, but hybrid technology can run on anything whether it be gasoline, E85, Diesel, CNG or VNG.

Most people are highly misinformed about E85, just like they were with electric cars, and hydrogen power. They're misinformed because they listen to big profit propaganda against new technologies that put a hurting on big profits. It's ALWAYS advantageous to someone to not move forward in technology. ALWAYS!

Now the reason why E85 sucks on economy for your flex-fuel vehicle is because the motor is not tuned for E85. Any car can technically use E85 with its stock tune. It will lose lots of power and economy because of it, though. When tuned correctly, the fuel will give you lots more torque and horsepower, which equates to less fuel usage to perform the same task. Anyone who tells you otherwise does NOT know what they're talking about. If your truck had more than just the ability to add more fuel when needed, and could advance timing 10+* on the fly, it would likely get around the same economy you'd get with gasoline. But GM didn't program that into the system.

If you do a little research, you'll see that the latest news on E85 development has shown that E85 only vehicles (cars tuned for E85 only) have gone from an average 15% drop in economy to less than 5%.

You better get all that water out of your radiator while you're at it too!!! Gosh. All that water going through all those tubes... Good thing the coolant don't touch the motor... Oh wait... it does. Now you have all that water going through the motor too?!?! OH NO!!! I bet it's a rust farm in that motor.



You really didn't think this through, did you? E85 is 85% alcohol and 15% gasoline. That 15% of gasoline helps lube moving components like the fuel injectors and guess what... It also prevents rusting!!! Wow... Who would have thunk it?

The only time you'd get water in the tank is if the E85 sat in the tank for many months... But this is a pretty easy thing to get around. Storing the car for a few months? Put regular gasoline in or add a fuel additive that stabilizes and prevents water build up. TAH DAH!!!!! If you're using your car on a regular basis, you WILL NOT get water in your tank... If any water DID somehow gather in the tank, it wouldn't be enough to hurt anything at all... All the lines are stainless steel. Since the late 80's, manufacturers were well aware that gasoline was going to get a mix of alcohol. Thus since the 90's all cars had stainless steel lines.

Please stop bringing your assumptions into the conversation. Be informed when you post. Those of us whom are informed and have done our research already can easily see when you pull information from your poop-chute.

 

Thanks for adding another educated, level-headed opinion. This thread certainly needed it.

BTW my dad works for Pacific Gas & Electric and his work truck runs on Natural Gas. He says it's a dog on the Natural Gas, though he just got a new truck ~2years ago that is a lot better, but still the NG doesn't compare to gasoline. You are correct, it certainly would not be an acceptable solution for the average consumer.

-TJ

 

Checking our parts data base, I find every single fuel system related part for our flex fuel cars and trucks are different from a standard car and carries a note to not interchange even though they will fit.There has to be a reason.