There's at least 6 stations within a 25 mile radius of me with non-ethanol gasoline, maybe 5 to 7 cents more a gallon, which equals maybe a couple dollars more for a fill up. Long as I can get it, that's what I put in all my vehicles. Gas mileage is a little better.

 

Blame Big AgBusiness (not real farmers) and their lobbyists...

Sugar Cane Ethanol would be a much better alternative in terms of lessening dependance on foreign oil.. Bio-diesel from waste products better still.. Weeds and waste, rather than a food staple.. what a concept! Imagine if Kudzu were found to be a decent material for fuel production!

Of course the vast majority of oil the US uses for transport is already domestic or at the very least from mostly friendly supplier countries in the Western Hemisphere.. And, if Mexico could get it's act together, Mexico has plenty of oil (not counting GoM) and could easily bankrupt the OPEC cartel if they wished.. First, the US would have to radically reform our own drug laws, kill off the black markets that fund the destabilizing criminal warlords there.. Then, get oil production ramped up significantly.. This would likely solve most of the Mexico->US immigration issues at the same time.. Still... I won't hold my breath..

Most of the Mid East Oil the US consumes, is used in industrial production, and the majority of that is actually processed into plastics, paints, etc in China... The best thing we could do to get off Mid East oil would be to stop buying so much cheep plastic crap from Walmart, that's made in China.. What a concept! The tech industry seems to be a step or two ahead in lessening the oil use for the production of their products, even the ones made in China, look at how much aluminum and glass are now major components in our favorite tech gadgets...

As far as "Drill baby drill".. Shrug.. The Dakotas have more oil under them than the GoM, and I don't get my food from the Dakotas... Sad that circus animals / zoo animals are smarter than humans when it comes to the "Don't **** where you eat".

 

I don't put that crap in my car,from what I understand Shell says they will not put ethanol in their High test. We'll see.

 

Ok, I'm not a real smart guy, but if I have to burn 7.5% more fuel to get 2% less emissions and my corn flakes are more expensive. Can someone explain how I'm improving anything by running 10% ethanol?

 

Your mpg increase of 8% must have involved something else (among other things, wind makes a difference.

At most E10 will result in a 3% reduction in mpg.

Also, just because the station said no ethanol doesn't mean you didn't get ethanol.

 

Ok, let's say it is only 3% reduction. Now explain how we are coming out ahead.

 

"Thank You, My point exactly. But nothing happens unless the MoJo's at the EPA say so. And that ain't gonna happen in this lifetime.

 

MPG is dependent on BTU's per gallon, alcohols have less BTU's per gallon so there is a loss. Well tuned LS motors minimize the MPG loss. LPG is is similar in that it also has less BTU's per gallon but burns clean and makes great power with 105 octane propane/butane blend!
Ethanol is being used as an oxygenating compound in gasoline instead of MTBE which was found to be polluting streams and lakes. They could use ETBE instead but since ETBE is made from ethanol (MTBE from methanol) it is much easier and cheaper to use ethanol itself.
When ethanol is made from corn the food portion is still available afterwards it is called distillers grains and it is just as nutritious as it was before the process. The making of ethanol is just an added step no different then when they make it for people to drink or add a new process step in refining oil to get a new product.
Some folks hate the politics behind it, fine, I have my share of issues on politics. That being said ethanol is a great high performance fuel and like methanol (which I used for racing before) the beauty of the fuel lies in the fact that the same ethanol can be used to make 400 hp, 800, or 1400 hp, you cant do that with pump gas. How much does C12 run? C16? There was another thread dealing with toluene as a high performance octane booster, great I agree but it toluene is an aromatic, a carcinogen and an expensive chemical with many uses other then burning it up in a engine so is that use any better?
Bottom line its a great big world, decide what you like, use what you want and enjoy HP and performance Vettes!
BTW my 2002 Z06 is loving the ethanol and I am loving the torque it makes!

 

The Government says we will be less Dependant of Foreign oil. At a cost to us and more money in the Gov pockets.
Everything using corn syrup has gone sky high, Have you priced a soda lately?

 

I'm enjoying my ethanol in a glass right now ... hopefully that's reducing our dependence on foreign oil and reducing emissions!

 

Although ethanol enriched gasoline and E85 are not a good idea from a political standpoint, there are a lot of advantages to ethanol from a performance standpoint.

If you aren't buying ethanol enriched gasoline for political reasons or for fuel efficiency reasons, than more power to you.

For anyone else, the more ethanol the better.

 

There are a several things. One is that MTBE is not needed any longer which was causing ground water pollution problems.

Also, if you happen to have noticed, the price of diesel fuel is now higher than gasoline in most places. A few years ago, it was the other way around. The 5-8% reduction in demand for gas due to ethanol usage is part of the reason (not the only) gas prices are lower than diesel.

The last reason is that the money for ethanol all stays here in the states. Money for oil/gas often ends up in countries where the men where sheets!!


Oh yes, your corn flakes come from white corn, not livestock feed corn.

 

Shell here in Northen Nevada has ethanol in it. There you have it...lol

 

Actually the rise in diesel prices was due to more processing needed to make reformulated diesel fuel which is ....you guessed it cleaner burning!
The old dielsel fuel has not changed but it is only legal in off the road equipment.
Politics? You bet, anytime the government is here to help you can bet it is probably going to cost you in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!
A seldom noted reality is that fuel components used in transportation in some way will be competing with other uses for that same component.
I worked in refineries previously and can tell you that crude oil refinery output is tailored as much as possible to what is most profitable, nothing wrong with that unless one is a socialist.
Innovation is the mother of progress, kill innovation at society's peril.
Interesting history is the politics behind gasoline becoming the favored fuel over ethanol and the wars with Ford and Rockefeller!
Natural distilled gasoline (NAPTHA) was a waste product and had an octane rating of around 70, most crude still NAPTHA streams have 17-20 % aromatics in it depending on the source of crude!
Please understand my recollection is 20 some years old so the "new" refinery tech has changed a lot but not the basics of crude oil.
Ethanol is hardly perfect as a fuel but it can replace higher end components for other uses while allowing for lower end octane companents.
Dont buy into the corrosive BS of ethanol, aromatics can be quite corrosive just ask anyone that works near them in a refinery!
I had a 5 gal. can of Citgo 110 race gas that ate a hole the plastic neck! Never had that issue with VP C12.
We use ethanol and methanol presently in some chemical processes so those components are also competing in other uses besides drinking and fuel.

Carlos

 

10% ethanol in gasoline is results in nearly 5% less energy, is my understanding.

 

In case people are interested in real numbers here is a couple of links as to the energy content of different fuels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

Also important to understand the reasons why the gasoline has changed over time and formulated the way it is today.
This is a newer manual then one I had read before (#3). I have not read this one yet but found #3 quite interesting because it showed me how much formulations had changed since I left the refining industry back in the 80's, and how many fuel formulations there are across the nation.

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/page/-/rfa...go.pdf?nocdn=1http://www.ethanolrfa.org/page/-/rfa...go.pdf?nocdn=1

Table 3-3
Gasoline Energy Content
Conventional Gasoline - btu Content
Summer grade btu Winter grade btu
Maximum 117,000 114,000
Minimum 113,000 108,500
Percent difference 3.4 5.0
Difference between summer maximum and winter minimum 7.26%

Table 3-4
Energy Content of E10 Blends
(when blended with 114,000 btu/gallon base fuel)
Energy content
(btu/gal)
Ethanol 77,300
Gasoline 114,000
E10 blend 110,300 3.2% reduction

The above info is found on page 20.

Please note as stated before MPG is dependent on BTU per gallon content but that does not mean HP making ability. Natural gas has higher octane then propane, ethanol, methanol, diesel, and gasoline which means it allows for more horse power to be made even though it has less BTU content and cannot make the MPG.
What I find helpful is to define the difference in objective. If the objective is transportation fuel and we are dealing with apples, oranges and melons my interest becomes in finding the cost per mile for the fuels being considered. When the objective is high performance I am interested in making power and cost per run of the fuels being considered!
Also important would be where the fuel is being used, in a Artic climate I would rather not use an alcohol that might be hard to start or if natural gas, or LPG was available and cheap it might make more sense as a fuel choice for a particular area and/or situation.
We all have our opinions as to what is good, needed and not needed.

Carlos

 

I just converted my sons race car to ethanol today. I used it in my 650 hp sbc in my Grand Am last year. Ethanol makes more power than race gas period. Everybody that I know of has went faster by switching. My car picked up almost .02 when I switched, and ran much cooler. I have no dought that a Vette tuned for ethenol would be quicker. May even be cheaper than running 92. mpg would be down a bit, but it would probably be cheaper to operate in a years time. My race car didn't quite use a 1/3 more, and it had 13.8/1 compression. The ethanol has more oxygen molecules than race gas,= more power.

 

You nailed it Brother! When are the rest gonna wake up and smell the corruption?

 

You are absolutely right!

 

Bring back Chevron's "Green Gas @ 104 octane" like then had in the old days. Good stuff!