Traction issues with drag radials
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Traction issues with drag radials
I just picked up a 97 C5 and i've never had a car that spins the tires so easily. This is my first vette, so maybe spinning the tires is typical? I was told this car does about 130 MPH in the quarter mile.
It has 345/35-18 MT Drag Radials on 18x12 rims. Automatic trans with 3600 stall. In first gear I can break 'em loose at 1/3 throttle. In second gear it'll spin at about 1/2 throttle. In third gear, maybe 3/4 throttle.
I bet my Buick Grand National would walk this thing in a street race. I was told the rear was upgraded, but I have no idea if it's got 3.42's or 4.10's. I've read that a supercharger and 4.10's are a bad idea.
Thoughts/comments?
It has 345/35-18 MT Drag Radials on 18x12 rims. Automatic trans with 3600 stall. In first gear I can break 'em loose at 1/3 throttle. In second gear it'll spin at about 1/2 throttle. In third gear, maybe 3/4 throttle.
I bet my Buick Grand National would walk this thing in a street race. I was told the rear was upgraded, but I have no idea if it's got 3.42's or 4.10's. I've read that a supercharger and 4.10's are a bad idea.
Thoughts/comments?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Florida
I was under the car and found that it has a DTE stage 2 setup with a 3.90 ratio. With that ratio and the 3600 stall, traction is a pipe dream on the street. It might work fine on a NA setup, but with the Kenne Bell, it just puts way too much torque to the wheels.
Well, luck has it (sort of), I think I've toasted the transmission already. Lots of whining coming from it. No crunching yet, so at least the core is still good. I may take the opportunity to remove the 3600 stall in favor of something like a Precision Vigilante 2800 LU. I hope to improve the traction and get more power to the pavement. As far as the tranny goes, I'm looking at an RPM Stage VI.
Any guidance is appreciated. Any ideas on how to put more power to the pavement? Any particular rear shocks? Stance of the car? Size of Drag Radial, 18 vs 19 inch? Thanks a bunch.
Well, luck has it (sort of), I think I've toasted the transmission already. Lots of whining coming from it. No crunching yet, so at least the core is still good. I may take the opportunity to remove the 3600 stall in favor of something like a Precision Vigilante 2800 LU. I hope to improve the traction and get more power to the pavement. As far as the tranny goes, I'm looking at an RPM Stage VI.
Any guidance is appreciated. Any ideas on how to put more power to the pavement? Any particular rear shocks? Stance of the car? Size of Drag Radial, 18 vs 19 inch? Thanks a bunch.
jobberone
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,062
Likes: 8
From: Kailua Kona HI
We need a fair amount more data to advise you. In the end though you are most likely going to be like the vast vast majority of us having to drive with the pedal for traction. And the GN is going to toast most cars with IRS off the line all things else being roughly equal.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Right, Kenne Bell at around 12 psi, alky-control single nozzle, ported heads, 1 3/4 full-length headers, Yank 3600 stall, 3.90 gears. Don't know the cam specs but it's a very rough idle, not a blower cam for sure. Looks like the guy build the combo originally for a NA setup and put the blower on after-the-fact. I was told it made around 579 RWHP but not 100% certain.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,975
Likes: 9
From: "Philly" Pennsylvania
Burning rubber
Maybe this will provide a different way to approach your situation.
First, see signature below for engine & mods.
Like you, no traction on street with street tires (Michelin PS2's 315/30's X 18), but some of my choices have worked out well. Stock converter/stall combined with a 3:15 to 1 rear gears and 315/30 drag radials on C5 Z06 wheels work out just fine.
With my cam able to idle @ 700rpm, I just have to floor it and the high gear ratio with stock stall & drag radials put out plenty of power for a good launch, as the rpm goes up more power is put to the ground and I get a mild amount of small chirps until it hits second (very minimum loss of traction), then that shift comes in with about 8-10 feet of burn and settles in nice all the way up to third. Great push! I also have the shift set for 6400 rpm instead of 67 or 68, gives me more room to the rev limiter and doesn't beat the eng. & drive train quite as bad. Also, get 28.7 mpg highway cruise. Don't track the car either (no roll bar). Nice quieter Z06 titanium exhaust.
My cam is middle of the road with good lift so I can get away with the low stall, your cam might not be able to do this. Dyno HP & torque low 500's
First, see signature below for engine & mods.
Like you, no traction on street with street tires (Michelin PS2's 315/30's X 18), but some of my choices have worked out well. Stock converter/stall combined with a 3:15 to 1 rear gears and 315/30 drag radials on C5 Z06 wheels work out just fine.
With my cam able to idle @ 700rpm, I just have to floor it and the high gear ratio with stock stall & drag radials put out plenty of power for a good launch, as the rpm goes up more power is put to the ground and I get a mild amount of small chirps until it hits second (very minimum loss of traction), then that shift comes in with about 8-10 feet of burn and settles in nice all the way up to third. Great push! I also have the shift set for 6400 rpm instead of 67 or 68, gives me more room to the rev limiter and doesn't beat the eng. & drive train quite as bad. Also, get 28.7 mpg highway cruise. Don't track the car either (no roll bar). Nice quieter Z06 titanium exhaust.
My cam is middle of the road with good lift so I can get away with the low stall, your cam might not be able to do this. Dyno HP & torque low 500's
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)
Joe Kucinski
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!
Brett Foote
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know
Joe Kucinski
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2
Michael S. Palmer
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,063
Likes: 1,839
From: cookeville tennessee
You will not be able to pull out at no more than 1800 rpm at the most without spinning. You are going to have to get to know your car car with that low of a gear in her man. Then learn have to paddle the car really good. I am sure your at full boost at 3,k rpm until you get above down only run guys from a roll man.
May trade that 3:90 out of her and get a 3:42 for sure...... Robert
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Interesting info about running a stock stall. Yeah, cam probably won't allow that low, but perhaps a 2200 will work. Swapping out the 3.90 for a 3.42 makes sense. I know my Viper had a 3.07 gear and I couldn't imagine any more gear than that for that engine. I'm taking the car to a local specialist on Tuesday. He's going to listen to the noises coming from the rear and we'll go from there. New tranny and torque converter for sure. Maybe gears after that.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,975
Likes: 9
From: "Philly" Pennsylvania
Interesting info about running a stock stall. Yeah, cam probably won't allow that low, but perhaps a 2200 will work. Swapping out the 3.90 for a 3.42 makes sense. I know my Viper had a 3.07 gear and I couldn't imagine any more gear than that for that engine. I'm taking the car to a local specialist on Tuesday. He's going to listen to the noises coming from the rear and we'll go from there. New tranny and torque converter for sure. Maybe gears after that.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Florida
I saw the vette specialist yesterday and now I have some decisions to make. The whining is coming from the ring & pinion. The tranny is fine. A DTE Stage 2 is $1800 and the Stage 3 is $2900. Since this car has busted a Stage 2 already, it might be a waste of money to buy another Stage 2 unit.
Another decision is the transmission. Right now it's stock. I called RPM and they recommended their Level VI tranny at $2900. Do I gamble and keep my original transmission or fork out the $$ for a stronger one. I've ordered a Yank SC 2800 converter, it was almost a grand, and I'd hate to send debris through a new converter if the tranny decides to come apart. I wonder what kind of $$ my original tranny could fetch? The car has 44k original miles and only a handful of passes at the strip. RPM charges $750 core. Not sure if I could sell the tranny for more.
If I replace the transmission, converter and rear, plus labor, I bet I'll spend close to $10k. Ouch!!!
The gentleman at DTE suggested that I install a shift kit and keep the stock tranny. I guess they're pretty strong units. Any thoughts? I don't want to go broke with this car, but at the same time want to do this once and be done with it.
Another decision is the transmission. Right now it's stock. I called RPM and they recommended their Level VI tranny at $2900. Do I gamble and keep my original transmission or fork out the $$ for a stronger one. I've ordered a Yank SC 2800 converter, it was almost a grand, and I'd hate to send debris through a new converter if the tranny decides to come apart. I wonder what kind of $$ my original tranny could fetch? The car has 44k original miles and only a handful of passes at the strip. RPM charges $750 core. Not sure if I could sell the tranny for more.
If I replace the transmission, converter and rear, plus labor, I bet I'll spend close to $10k. Ouch!!!
The gentleman at DTE suggested that I install a shift kit and keep the stock tranny. I guess they're pretty strong units. Any thoughts? I don't want to go broke with this car, but at the same time want to do this once and be done with it.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,664
Likes: 15
From: Wellsboro Pa
Why would you say that? My motor is stock with bolt-ons which include an ECS built A4, 2800 stall with a Paxton supercharger and 3.42 gears. I can smoke the tires all day long if I want to. Can't come out of the hole without throttling the gas pedal until I hit 2nd gear and then still spin the rear tires. No internal mods.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 101
Likes: 4
From: Katy Texas
You are on the right track with switching to a higher gear ratio to minimize the traction issue. The more torque you make with the engine the less mechanical torque multiplication you need in gear ratio. All the guys running drag radials with 1500 HP supercharged and nitrous motors will tell you how critical the total first gear ratio (trans and rear gear ratio combined) is for launching the car. I'd recommend the 3:15 gear in a stage 3 DTE and go ahead with the stage IV tranny build while the rear is apart. You'll be glad you did and it is money well spent.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Ok guys, here is the mother-load that i bought a couple of weeks ago:
Yank SC 2800 converter arrived today, as well as the 3" billet prop shaft by The Driveshaft Shop. I'm still waiting on the stage 4 differential w/Quaife, the Level VI transmission, and heavy duty drive plate from RPM.
I went with the 3.42 ratio since I run tires that are much taller than factory. (currently running 305/35-R20's which are about 28.4 diameter).
It will be at least another month before this stuff gets installed. The challenge is finding a shop that can do this. The local dealership might be able to handle it. I've still gotta make some phone calls. I'm going to order a HP Tuner's Pro Suite from Summit so that I can update the gear ratio and shift points. So much to learn with this thing. I'm finishing up my 800HP Buick turbo engine as well. Too many projects!
Yank SC 2800 converter arrived today, as well as the 3" billet prop shaft by The Driveshaft Shop. I'm still waiting on the stage 4 differential w/Quaife, the Level VI transmission, and heavy duty drive plate from RPM.
I went with the 3.42 ratio since I run tires that are much taller than factory. (currently running 305/35-R20's which are about 28.4 diameter).
It will be at least another month before this stuff gets installed. The challenge is finding a shop that can do this. The local dealership might be able to handle it. I've still gotta make some phone calls. I'm going to order a HP Tuner's Pro Suite from Summit so that I can update the gear ratio and shift points. So much to learn with this thing. I'm finishing up my 800HP Buick turbo engine as well. Too many projects!
