Cheaper aluminum radiators
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 2
From: San Diego CA
If you're stock, with normal driving, you wouldn't notice the difference in extra cooling capacity from a well engineered performance radiator versus an aluminum copy of stock....
I have a supercharger and drive in a hot climate....... I noticed a major difference versus the stock radiator. When I changed, I was making an upgrade (not just a new radiator), I was willing to pay for the engineering and workmanship of the DeWitts. In my case, the results made it a bargain.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,572
Likes: 9
From: Jackson Tn
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09
aint this the truth!!!
By building factories overseas, manufacturers are sowing the seeds of their own long-term destruction by slowly reducing the wealth of Americans—their primary customers.
By building factories overseas, manufacturers are sowing the seeds of their own long-term destruction by slowly reducing the wealth of Americans—their primary customers.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
From: Rockville MD
I totally understand the point you're making...... but.... that doesn't mean there isn't a difference.......
If you're stock, with normal driving, you wouldn't notice the difference in extra cooling capacity from a well engineered performance radiator versus an aluminum copy of stock....
I have a supercharger and drive in a hot climate....... I noticed a major difference versus the stock radiator. When I changed, I was making an upgrade (not just a new radiator), I was willing to pay for the engineering and workmanship of the DeWitts. In my case, the results made it a bargain.
If you're stock, with normal driving, you wouldn't notice the difference in extra cooling capacity from a well engineered performance radiator versus an aluminum copy of stock....
I have a supercharger and drive in a hot climate....... I noticed a major difference versus the stock radiator. When I changed, I was making an upgrade (not just a new radiator), I was willing to pay for the engineering and workmanship of the DeWitts. In my case, the results made it a bargain.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,593
Likes: 631
From: Brighton
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,572
Likes: 9
From: Jackson Tn
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09
if I were you Tom I would get one of those rice rads and cut it up along with one of yours to show people the difference in them.
Try educating people and let them decide
Try educating people and let them decide
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
As i posted in the other thread I ended up buying the ebay radiator due to the huge price difference. I wanted to by American made and tried to justify the extra expense in doing so. I pondered the purchase for a good month and then pulled the trigger after reading the reviews as I could not justify paying almost tripple for the radiator. Besides I would be willing to bet that most "Made in America" products should really be "assembled in America" as most companys are getting their raw materials from China. I work for a major manufacturer that touts the "Made in the USA" all over the place but EVERY and I mean EVERY parts used to make it comes from overseas and mainly China. I would have been willing to pay even 100 more for the DeWitt unit as it was my first choice and I will be buying the fan system they product for the C5 at some point but I myself just could not spend tripple the cost. Sorry for being so long winded..
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
From: San Jose CA
In the end, there are two different products here and both serve their purpose to their potential markets.
The ebay radiators serve the people who just need something that works, and quality/reliability is a second priority to price.
The DeWitt's, etc... are for people who truly value quality/reliability and are willing to pay more for it.
Just as there's a market for both Apple iPods, who some say is way overpriced vs Knockoff MP3 players which are much much cheaper.
The ebay radiators serve the people who just need something that works, and quality/reliability is a second priority to price.
The DeWitt's, etc... are for people who truly value quality/reliability and are willing to pay more for it.
Just as there's a market for both Apple iPods, who some say is way overpriced vs Knockoff MP3 players which are much much cheaper.
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Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 11,112
Likes: 667
From: SE Pennsylvania
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Oldtimer
The good, bad and the Best.
There is an article I bookmarked a couple of years ago that I think is relevant to this discussion. Here is an excerpt from it.
Some economists have noticed manufacturing losses, but because the negative long-term ramifications have not become fully manifest in the economy, people are willing to turn a blind eye. Over the short term, companies have become richer through outsourcing, and consumers are happy because they have cheaper toys. But this will not last forever. At some point, manufacturing job losses will mean Americans will not be able to afford toys at all.
Here is a link to the article. http://www.thetrumpet.com/?page=article&id=1955
Some economists have noticed manufacturing losses, but because the negative long-term ramifications have not become fully manifest in the economy, people are willing to turn a blind eye. Over the short term, companies have become richer through outsourcing, and consumers are happy because they have cheaper toys. But this will not last forever. At some point, manufacturing job losses will mean Americans will not be able to afford toys at all.
Here is a link to the article. http://www.thetrumpet.com/?page=article&id=1955
But on you other members note, I do everything I can do to purchase an a American Made product. I made my money in this country, and I want to spend it here. But for small companies like Dewitt's, it's critical to be able to get the parts needed to build a top quality item and also be able to compete with off-shore manufactures. The only way to do that is with "Quality" Sure you can find a radiator cheaper than a Dewitt's unit and it might work out for you, And I hope it does, But I'm a little more patriotic and for me, Personally I like to buy "American Made"
And before you set me on fire, I'm not saying anyone isn't, but if I don't have the money for a Dewitt vs. Offshore product, I'll wait till I have saved enough. I understand some folks don't have that luxury, and I'm glad I do. But I don't want to change the radiator in my Corvette more than once. So I'm not knocking anyone, but Dewitt's is a part that you buy, install and forget it's in there. It won't leak, and that is the bottom line.
And about American made products, General Electric doesn't pay any taxes in this country. Or according to a episode of "60 Minutes" I watch about three weeks ago. Manufacturing in this country, is very close to being extinct. We don't build anything here. General Electric builds mostly in Brazil. And in short order that's going to come back and bite us here in this country.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 179
Likes: 10
From: Malone New York
Age of the car has little if anything to do with this discussion. It is not poor money management to purchase and install a more expensive part on a vehicle that is intended to be kept for a long time as many here are wont to do.
Buying a cheap piece may save the money at the point of the initial purchase, but over a longer period of time, it will not be cost effective if the part has to be replaced two or more times compared to the more expensive part that will offer great longevity.
I don't think it's fair to manufacturers to state "I bought the exact same thing as XYZ on Ebay for half the price....difference is that it is made off shore."
XYZ spent a substantial amount of money to design and engineer his product, and then spent more money to build a facility to manufacture the product, retain a number of skilled workers to staff the facility and only purchases the highest quality raw materials.....and does all of this in the U.S. where the labor costs are likely to be 10 to 15 times higher.
It has become very difficult for bricks and mortar businesses to survive in today's environment. There are Internet sellers that have next to zero overhead selling the same products as the bricks and mortar retailers and manufacturers that have substantial overhead as previously mentioned. Top this off with the Internet sellers not charging sales tax as a bricks and mortar seller is required to do - the traditional businesses are struggling to survive.
So when I read Tom's outcry and obvious anger, I totally get it. I see comments like - "maybe this should send a message to Dewitt's and Ron Davis to be more price competitive....." and I wonder, should they make and sell their products and make no profit? Should the retailers that carry these quality products make no profit?
I understand that the consumer is trying to save money - maybe those consumers that place price first should consider this -
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
John Ruskin
Buying a cheap piece may save the money at the point of the initial purchase, but over a longer period of time, it will not be cost effective if the part has to be replaced two or more times compared to the more expensive part that will offer great longevity.
I don't think it's fair to manufacturers to state "I bought the exact same thing as XYZ on Ebay for half the price....difference is that it is made off shore."
XYZ spent a substantial amount of money to design and engineer his product, and then spent more money to build a facility to manufacture the product, retain a number of skilled workers to staff the facility and only purchases the highest quality raw materials.....and does all of this in the U.S. where the labor costs are likely to be 10 to 15 times higher.
It has become very difficult for bricks and mortar businesses to survive in today's environment. There are Internet sellers that have next to zero overhead selling the same products as the bricks and mortar retailers and manufacturers that have substantial overhead as previously mentioned. Top this off with the Internet sellers not charging sales tax as a bricks and mortar seller is required to do - the traditional businesses are struggling to survive.
So when I read Tom's outcry and obvious anger, I totally get it. I see comments like - "maybe this should send a message to Dewitt's and Ron Davis to be more price competitive....." and I wonder, should they make and sell their products and make no profit? Should the retailers that carry these quality products make no profit?
I understand that the consumer is trying to save money - maybe those consumers that place price first should consider this -
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
John Ruskin
For what its worth I would not trust that cheap stuff on my car. I will buy a cut down Dewitts when the time comes for a bigger motor and more boost. The best shops seem to use them and never hear of any problems.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,387
Likes: 10
From: Jacksonville FL
I have a ton of thoughts on this so I'll try and keep it short. When a part fails, you're rarely just out the cost of that part. There's either labor or time, potential other damage, and the aggravation.
I buy American where I can and wish more people did as well. If you own a Corvette, maybe instead of looking for the cheapest or most expensive part, you should try looking for the best part. Then shop around for the best price. Just a thought.
I buy American where I can and wish more people did as well. If you own a Corvette, maybe instead of looking for the cheapest or most expensive part, you should try looking for the best part. Then shop around for the best price. Just a thought.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,237
Likes: 9
From: Springhill FL
Ok lets look at it this way then. How many here have seen a report of one of these "cheap" radiators on a C5 failing? I havent. Only ones I have ever seen fail are the stock ones, where were they made?
Or this: I will start producing a radiator that will be better than Dewitts. It will cost 5 times as much($2500), but will last five times as long(infinityx5). is it worth it?
All the perceived value of the "quality product" everyone is talking about is 100% psychological. Either the piece does what it says or does not. The cost does not Directly affect the quality unless there is a difference in materals. A quantifiable difference in materials has not been proven.
All we've seen is a generic "made in the usa" rally cry which quite frankly is becoming cliche and is generally used by those that want to pound thier chest for having(spending) money. Everytime they say they paid more they follow it up with talking down to those that didnt.
Or this: I will start producing a radiator that will be better than Dewitts. It will cost 5 times as much($2500), but will last five times as long(infinityx5). is it worth it?
All the perceived value of the "quality product" everyone is talking about is 100% psychological. Either the piece does what it says or does not. The cost does not Directly affect the quality unless there is a difference in materals. A quantifiable difference in materials has not been proven.
All we've seen is a generic "made in the usa" rally cry which quite frankly is becoming cliche and is generally used by those that want to pound thier chest for having(spending) money. Everytime they say they paid more they follow it up with talking down to those that didnt.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,572
Likes: 9
From: Jackson Tn
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,059
Likes: 1,837
From: cookeville tennessee
Per say you get what you pay for in normal life. That is if two items for sale and one is half the price of the second one, You better start looking in how and what the stuff is made and made out off... Plain and simple.... Just my 2 cents I have your rad,s and fan,s set up in both my 04 vette and 65 vette. Robert
