C5 performance
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Instructor
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Oldtimer
C5 performance
I know that there has been discussion as to whether the Vette is a sports car or muscle car.
I started watching the show "Top Gear" and it got me to wondering just how does the stock C5 handling on a race track (not 1/4 mile straight) compare to say a new Mustang GT or Porsche or 350 Z or BMW?
I know this is a general question but just curious as I have only driven on the highway, and doubt I will ever go to an actual race track.
Mod please move if this is in the wrong section.
I started watching the show "Top Gear" and it got me to wondering just how does the stock C5 handling on a race track (not 1/4 mile straight) compare to say a new Mustang GT or Porsche or 350 Z or BMW?
I know this is a general question but just curious as I have only driven on the highway, and doubt I will ever go to an actual race track.
Mod please move if this is in the wrong section.
Team Owner
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From: Somewhere in Mo
St. Jude Donor '09-'10, '14
I consider the vette the ultimate muscle car myself, but many would disagree with me. It is considered a sportscar by defintion.
I don't know much about the Mustang but I would guess it would eat up a Mustang on a road course, but I may be wrong. As for the other cars you mention it would come down to the driver as those cars are designed for the same purposes as the vette.
Sportscar to me sounds just too girly for my taste and brings up images of leather jackets, white shoes, necklaces, and snooty dispositions. And to some muscle car folks that's how they see the vette, and us, unfortunately from my experiences. But I also think there's some jealousy fueling that, because our vettes come out of the box with go power and "some" of the old school muscle cars had to get some added help with mods. And that's still true today.
I don't know much about the Mustang but I would guess it would eat up a Mustang on a road course, but I may be wrong. As for the other cars you mention it would come down to the driver as those cars are designed for the same purposes as the vette.
Sportscar to me sounds just too girly for my taste and brings up images of leather jackets, white shoes, necklaces, and snooty dispositions. And to some muscle car folks that's how they see the vette, and us, unfortunately from my experiences. But I also think there's some jealousy fueling that, because our vettes come out of the box with go power and "some" of the old school muscle cars had to get some added help with mods. And that's still true today.
Last edited by RetiredSFC 97; Jan 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM.
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '13
That describes the hosts of Top gear perfectly.
I consider the vette the ultimate muscle car myself, but many would disagree with me. It is considered a sportscar by defintion.
Sportscar to me sounds just too girly for my taste and brings up images of leather jackets, white shoes, necklaces, and snooty dispositions. And to some muscle car folks that's how they see the vette, and us, unfortunately from my experiences.
Sportscar to me sounds just too girly for my taste and brings up images of leather jackets, white shoes, necklaces, and snooty dispositions. And to some muscle car folks that's how they see the vette, and us, unfortunately from my experiences.
Le Mans Master
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IMO, it is a class all its own. Sportscar sounds too 80's-like, muscle car reminds me of the 60's & 70's big block, idle-loping Chevelles & Camaros, etc.
Being that the Corvette has been around for 50+ years, I consider it a legend and I am proud to own one.
Being that the Corvette has been around for 50+ years, I consider it a legend and I am proud to own one.
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I've never had mine out on a track either, but I would guess it would hold it's own against the vast majority of cars out there today. Yes, it may not do as well as some of them, but then again, the Vette doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get superb handling and performance for your dollar either.
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
We need to go back to the sixties to get the "accepted" definition of Muscle Car.
Typically it as a coupe version of Dad's car with a monster motor, never intended to be driven on anything other than 1/4 mile tracks or the street.
The Corvette was always intended to be a sportscar, driven in the manner of sportscars.
Any car can be raced 1/4mi and the HP/wt ratio of the Vette makes it competitive, even in stock trim. If it were intended to be a "muscle car" it wouldn't have been designed with independent rear suspension.
Of course this is JMHO
If you want to see what they are comparible to performance wise watch American LeMans. The cars entered there are chosen due to their inherent design for that purpose. A Mustang wouldn't survive 10 laps in tht kind of competition. Look for them on the 1/4mi strip.
Again, JMHO
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From: charlotte north carolin
We need to go back to the sixties to get the "accepted" definition of Muscle Car.
Typically it as a coupe version of Dad's car with a monster motor, never intended to be driven on anything other than 1/4 mile tracks or the street.
The Corvette was always intended to be a sportscar, driven in the manner of sportscars.
Any car can be raced 1/4mi and the HP/wt ratio of the Vette makes it competitive, even in stock trim. If it were intended to be a "muscle car" it wouldn't have been designed with independent rear suspension.
Of course this is JMHO
If you want to see what they are comparible to performance wise watch American LeMans. The cars entered there are chosen due to their inherent design for that purpose. A Mustang wouldn't survive 10 laps in tht kind of competition. Look for them on the 1/4mi strip.
Again, JMHO
I've owned a lot of monster muscle cars
My Vette does not fit that bill
And yes, a mustang is neither: pony car
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From: charlotte north carolin
only a vette 'only' guy would do so
(in my opinion)
Or someone that ignores 20 years of history?
I don't see what is wrong with the leather jacket searing, white shoes, snooty attitudes
That IS most vette guys, isn't it? And sure, it probably leads to jealousy, etc
A muscle car guy builds his car to compete with the vette guy, because he can't afford a vette
The vette guy has the money to hit the gas pedal....
(generalizations, of course....but stereotypes are usually true for a reason)
And on a side note....I don't think I can think of a muscle car that doesn't have a back seat (among many other arguments)
Call the vette a performance car if you don't like hearing 'sportscar'
(in my opinion)
Or someone that ignores 20 years of history?
I don't see what is wrong with the leather jacket searing, white shoes, snooty attitudes
That IS most vette guys, isn't it? And sure, it probably leads to jealousy, etc
A muscle car guy builds his car to compete with the vette guy, because he can't afford a vette
The vette guy has the money to hit the gas pedal....
(generalizations, of course....but stereotypes are usually true for a reason)
And on a side note....I don't think I can think of a muscle car that doesn't have a back seat (among many other arguments)
Call the vette a performance car if you don't like hearing 'sportscar'
Last edited by Harry Marsh; Jan 21, 2012 at 11:27 AM.
Instructor
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From: Naples, FL -/- Oxford, England
Try this for a comparison test
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...d-the-goliaths
And Corvette is America's sports car!
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...d-the-goliaths
And Corvette is America's sports car!
Last edited by andynpz; Jan 21, 2012 at 12:45 PM.
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thanks Andynpz
that article was exactly what I was interested in.
this forum is great as are you.
can't think of any other forum where a poorly written question like mine could get the exact answers I was looking for !!!!!
this forum is great as are you.
can't think of any other forum where a poorly written question like mine could get the exact answers I was looking for !!!!!
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Drifting
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Guy on the MG site recently made the comment that he owns two of the only sportscars ever built in the US....a Fiero and a Solstice. 
I just let it go. He's in Canada so maybe that has something to do with the perception.
I think the C5 proved it's worth with the success in the endurance series. Muscle Cars don't win road races.
I just let it go. He's in Canada so maybe that has something to do with the perception.I think the C5 proved it's worth with the success in the endurance series. Muscle Cars don't win road races.
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Depends on if you consider this a muscle car or not.. 2012 Boss 302
MotorTrend claims the Boss 302 laps Laguna Seca in 1:40.21 vs. the M3's 1:42.96.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=BxEhnugwzCc
And I remember seeing mustangs doing pretty good in some road racing series on TV vs some M3s Camaros Volkswagen
Some History
"In 1965, Carroll Shelby, responding to Ford’s challenge to build a winning road racing program, introduced the Mustang GT-350 – a stripped down Mustang 2+2 with modified suspension, shocks, steering, brakes and Ford 289-cubic-inch V-8s – for Sports Car Club of America competition.
Jerry Titus, Bob Johnson and Mark Donohue drove GT-350s to national titles in 1965, and the GT-350 went on to win SCCA B-Production national championships for three straight years."
MotorTrend claims the Boss 302 laps Laguna Seca in 1:40.21 vs. the M3's 1:42.96.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=BxEhnugwzCc
And I remember seeing mustangs doing pretty good in some road racing series on TV vs some M3s Camaros Volkswagen
Some History
"In 1965, Carroll Shelby, responding to Ford’s challenge to build a winning road racing program, introduced the Mustang GT-350 – a stripped down Mustang 2+2 with modified suspension, shocks, steering, brakes and Ford 289-cubic-inch V-8s – for Sports Car Club of America competition.
Jerry Titus, Bob Johnson and Mark Donohue drove GT-350s to national titles in 1965, and the GT-350 went on to win SCCA B-Production national championships for three straight years."
Last edited by tripleblackvert; Jan 21, 2012 at 02:42 PM.
Drifting
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Yes I suppose the definition gets a little confusing. When I hear muscle car, my first thoughts are the GTO, Chevelles, Cudas and others from the 60s. Typically with large,big block, truck type engines and nose heavy. Not the best recipe for carving corners.
Of couse there are exceptions such as you mention. But when someone says "muscle car", to me it is a drag race vehicle. Road racing = sports car to me. Cars like the GT350 and Camaro Z28 were built for road racing...Trans Am specifically. So those would be more sports car than muscle car in my mind. Just my perception.
One thing I do believe is the Corvette has always been designed with consideration of handling as important as straight line acceleration. Granted, both have improved greatly over the years but Vettes were never built with drag racing as their sole purpose.
When you start talking about modified cars, all bets are off. I'm guessing you could make a 69 Chevelle road race car if you were motivated to do so. I'd say the Corvette does it all really well, right out of the box.
Of couse there are exceptions such as you mention. But when someone says "muscle car", to me it is a drag race vehicle. Road racing = sports car to me. Cars like the GT350 and Camaro Z28 were built for road racing...Trans Am specifically. So those would be more sports car than muscle car in my mind. Just my perception.
One thing I do believe is the Corvette has always been designed with consideration of handling as important as straight line acceleration. Granted, both have improved greatly over the years but Vettes were never built with drag racing as their sole purpose.
When you start talking about modified cars, all bets are off. I'm guessing you could make a 69 Chevelle road race car if you were motivated to do so. I'd say the Corvette does it all really well, right out of the box.
Last edited by fendermender; Jan 21, 2012 at 03:15 PM.
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From: Somewhere in Mo
St. Jude Donor '09-'10, '14
only a vette 'only' guy would do so
(in my opinion)
Or someone that ignores 20 years of history?
I don't see what is wrong with the leather jacket searing, white shoes, snooty attitudes
That IS most vette guys, isn't it? And sure, it probably leads to jealousy, etc
A muscle car guy builds his car to compete with the vette guy, because he can't afford a vette
The vette guy has the money to hit the gas pedal....
(generalizations, of course....but stereotypes are usually true for a reason)
And on a side note....I don't think I can think of a muscle car that doesn't have a back seat (among many other arguments)
Call the vette a performance car if you don't like hearing 'sportscar'
(in my opinion)
Or someone that ignores 20 years of history?
I don't see what is wrong with the leather jacket searing, white shoes, snooty attitudes
That IS most vette guys, isn't it? And sure, it probably leads to jealousy, etc
A muscle car guy builds his car to compete with the vette guy, because he can't afford a vette
The vette guy has the money to hit the gas pedal....
(generalizations, of course....but stereotypes are usually true for a reason)
And on a side note....I don't think I can think of a muscle car that doesn't have a back seat (among many other arguments)
Call the vette a performance car if you don't like hearing 'sportscar'
So which 20 years are you referring to in regard to "performance cars"
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From: charlotte north carolin
Of course, the beginning/end could be debated
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