[Z06] Sway bar set up..
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 427
Likes: 10
From: Texas
Sway bar set up..
First off can anyone advise on some good reading on suspension set up?
Secondly is having a little understeer suggested because of the light *** end of the c5? This is all new to me so I'm trying to absorb as much as I can. I've installed Pfadt SA Feather lights and light race adjustable sway bars. Purpose of the car is primarily street but do plan on tracking it. Again just trying to absorb as much as I can..
Thanks
Secondly is having a little understeer suggested because of the light *** end of the c5? This is all new to me so I'm trying to absorb as much as I can. I've installed Pfadt SA Feather lights and light race adjustable sway bars. Purpose of the car is primarily street but do plan on tracking it. Again just trying to absorb as much as I can..
Thanks
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Woodinville, WA
Call Pfadt up. They race their own cars. I'm sure they wouldn't mind hearing what you want to do and give you a good start point. Then the idea is to go to the track and do some laps, get a base lap time and see how it performs. Then try a change in the setup. Typically it is suggested to make only one change at a time so you can see the true effect of your adjustment. Keep a journal of your changes and where you are at. Include your observations of the ride and lap times. Then there is the fun of going to different tracks that require different setups. Welcome to the fun of going fast at the track. It's the most legal fun I've ever had.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,889
Likes: 230
From: Livingston County, Michigan
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html
While the above was written a few years ago and is specific towards autocrossing, there is a LOT of good material in here. And be prepared to spend time to read/digest this.
Not a lot just on bars, but a good read on suspensions and shocks.
The guy that wrote this spent a couple of years working on a C5 in street prepared trim for autocrossing, so there is some C5 specific stuff in this material.
While the above was written a few years ago and is specific towards autocrossing, there is a LOT of good material in here. And be prepared to spend time to read/digest this.
Not a lot just on bars, but a good read on suspensions and shocks.
The guy that wrote this spent a couple of years working on a C5 in street prepared trim for autocrossing, so there is some C5 specific stuff in this material.
Last edited by acrace; Jul 26, 2012 at 05:59 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,355
Likes: 113
From: Los Angeles
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,724
Likes: 9
There have been some excellent reading suggestions made by the guys above me. There are some more great books available for beginners out there as well. If you're in for some more advanced reading you might want to tackle Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken and Milliken... but be sure to brush up on your math skills before REALLY diving into that book. It has fantastic information but it absolutely reads more like a text book than other books we've seen.
Race Car Vehicle Dynamics
To quickly answer your questions about the slight push you're experiencing, you've got a couple different ways to go about tuning it out. When you stiffen a sway bar you're effectively removing grip from that end of the car. So you can either make the front bar softer to increase front grip at the expense of turn in response, or you can stiffen the rear end to remove some grip at the rear.
I would strongly suggest taking the car to a track day first before making any changes. You would be surprised how different cars feel when really pushed to the limits on track rather than tuned on the street. Really evaluate the car and it's new behavior after your first track day and decide if changes even need to be made. If the car is pushy on track we would start by stiffening the rear bar one position.
Here is a snippet from our Sway Bar Installation Instructions with a quick sway bar tuning tutorial:
Race Car Vehicle Dynamics
To quickly answer your questions about the slight push you're experiencing, you've got a couple different ways to go about tuning it out. When you stiffen a sway bar you're effectively removing grip from that end of the car. So you can either make the front bar softer to increase front grip at the expense of turn in response, or you can stiffen the rear end to remove some grip at the rear.
I would strongly suggest taking the car to a track day first before making any changes. You would be surprised how different cars feel when really pushed to the limits on track rather than tuned on the street. Really evaluate the car and it's new behavior after your first track day and decide if changes even need to be made. If the car is pushy on track we would start by stiffening the rear bar one position.
Here is a snippet from our Sway Bar Installation Instructions with a quick sway bar tuning tutorial:
Originally Posted by Pfadt Race Engineering Sway Bar Install guide
Sway Bar Tuning Guidelines
Sway bars are your largest tuning tool and are capable of affecting the balance of the car during each phase of a corner: corner-entry, mid-corner and corner-exit. However, sway bar tuning is especially useful for adjusting mid-corner behavior. Corner-entry and corner-exit are considered transition periods. During these transition periods the shocks
are capable of modifying the balance of the car. At mid-corner, shock settings have no affect on balance and adjustments are made with the sway bar. In other words, sway bars could correct a corner-entry or corner-exit balance problem but, shocks can not correct a mid-corner balance problem. This is the reason that sway bar tuning should ideally be done during mid-corner.
When tuning sway bars it is best to find a long constant radius turn at which you can incrementally increase speed until the limit of traction is found. There are three possible scenarios at the limit of traction.
1. The front tires exceed their limit of traction first. This condition is commonly called under-steer, push or tight.
2. The rear tires exceed their limit of traction first. This condition is commonly called over-steer, tail-happy or loose.
3. The front and rear tires exceed their limit of traction at the same moment. This condition is commonly called a four-wheel-drift or neutral balance.
After you have determined the behavior of the car it is possible to change this balance by changing the sway bar settings. Let’s take a look at case one for a moment. The front tires are being asked to carry a cornering load higher than they are capable of while the rear tires are being asked to carry a cornering load lower than they are capable of. By either moving the front sway bar to a softer setting or the rear sway bar to a stiffer setting you will remove some of the cornering responsibility from the front tires and add it to the rear tires.
The general rule of sway bar tuning is to soften the end that needs additional traction. It is also equally as effective to stiffen the end that needs less traction. Typically in the Corvette we tune with the rear sway bar because adjustments on the rear sway bar are easier to perform at the track.
Sway bars are your largest tuning tool and are capable of affecting the balance of the car during each phase of a corner: corner-entry, mid-corner and corner-exit. However, sway bar tuning is especially useful for adjusting mid-corner behavior. Corner-entry and corner-exit are considered transition periods. During these transition periods the shocks
are capable of modifying the balance of the car. At mid-corner, shock settings have no affect on balance and adjustments are made with the sway bar. In other words, sway bars could correct a corner-entry or corner-exit balance problem but, shocks can not correct a mid-corner balance problem. This is the reason that sway bar tuning should ideally be done during mid-corner.
When tuning sway bars it is best to find a long constant radius turn at which you can incrementally increase speed until the limit of traction is found. There are three possible scenarios at the limit of traction.
1. The front tires exceed their limit of traction first. This condition is commonly called under-steer, push or tight.
2. The rear tires exceed their limit of traction first. This condition is commonly called over-steer, tail-happy or loose.
3. The front and rear tires exceed their limit of traction at the same moment. This condition is commonly called a four-wheel-drift or neutral balance.
After you have determined the behavior of the car it is possible to change this balance by changing the sway bar settings. Let’s take a look at case one for a moment. The front tires are being asked to carry a cornering load higher than they are capable of while the rear tires are being asked to carry a cornering load lower than they are capable of. By either moving the front sway bar to a softer setting or the rear sway bar to a stiffer setting you will remove some of the cornering responsibility from the front tires and add it to the rear tires.
The general rule of sway bar tuning is to soften the end that needs additional traction. It is also equally as effective to stiffen the end that needs less traction. Typically in the Corvette we tune with the rear sway bar because adjustments on the rear sway bar are easier to perform at the track.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: lilburn/groton GA/CT
Just found this website
http://www.rapid-racer.com/suspensio...0Bars%20Tuning.
Seems decent. One thing i learned with my sti is to put a stiffer front swaybar on the front and it will induce oversteer.
http://www.rapid-racer.com/suspensio...0Bars%20Tuning.
Seems decent. One thing i learned with my sti is to put a stiffer front swaybar on the front and it will induce oversteer.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,355
Likes: 113
From: Los Angeles
See Pfadt Racing's post directly before yours: "When you stiffen a sway bar you're effectively removing grip from that end of the car."
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