Forced Induction vs Natural
Team Owner
Joined: May 2006
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From: Palmdale, Ca----- 2009 Cyber Gray 4LT A6 F55 452 RWHP 422 RWTQ- RIP 1998 C5 734 RWHP & 585 RWTQ-----
Take a ride in a F/I Vette -
Plus it was stated above (Mustang Fox Body Comment) to get as much power down low with N/A - go ahead and try that - your top end will suffer too!
But F/I will come on at 2000+ RPM and start Boosting - that is down low and pull all the way to 6700 RPM!
Thanks,Matt
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From: Palmdale, Ca----- 2009 Cyber Gray 4LT A6 F55 452 RWHP 422 RWTQ- RIP 1998 C5 734 RWHP & 585 RWTQ-----
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From: Scottsdale AZ
Don't listen to this crap of - "Ohh how is anyone who has 550 RWHP is going to be able to use it anyway, blah, blah, blah!" -
Obviously you have not had a 550+ RWHP vehicle, Fox Body is much different, they really suck, even those crappy COBRA's that get soooo much heat soak from their top mounted superchargers - they get blown away all the time!!
The 450 RWHP that you are aiming for you will get and you will still have the same issues that a 550 RWHP Vette will have with traction etc., well plus more -
Because you will get smoked by the other Vette and then you will be pissed and then you will look to F/I and then say damn - "I shoulda went F/I first!"
This is the process I went through too! I had 423 RWHP with H/C and all supporting bolt on mods and raced a little and it was not enough - went F/I!
My buddy went F/I first and layed down 565 RWHP! For the same amount of the H/C etc! which was the better choice - I woulda, shoulda went F/I first and then add H/C later!
Thanks,Matt
Obviously you have not had a 550+ RWHP vehicle, Fox Body is much different, they really suck, even those crappy COBRA's that get soooo much heat soak from their top mounted superchargers - they get blown away all the time!!
The 450 RWHP that you are aiming for you will get and you will still have the same issues that a 550 RWHP Vette will have with traction etc., well plus more -
Because you will get smoked by the other Vette and then you will be pissed and then you will look to F/I and then say damn - "I shoulda went F/I first!"
This is the process I went through too! I had 423 RWHP with H/C and all supporting bolt on mods and raced a little and it was not enough - went F/I!
My buddy went F/I first and layed down 565 RWHP! For the same amount of the H/C etc! which was the better choice - I woulda, shoulda went F/I first and then add H/C later!
Thanks,Matt
Now, I know we've already established that I'm very uninformed and bring no points worth considering to the table, so help me understand this. My understanding (and experience) has always been that as power increases, available traction decreases, all other things remaining the same. Do these A&A kits have a built in improbability drive or physics defeater of some sort?
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From: Palmdale, Ca----- 2009 Cyber Gray 4LT A6 F55 452 RWHP 422 RWTQ- RIP 1998 C5 734 RWHP & 585 RWTQ-----
My apologies for exciting you to such a high degree. I won't even bother going into the fact that the heat soak on Cobra's has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. Instead, I'd like to focus on something else you said that I'm quite interested to know more about. 550rwhp cars will have the same traction issues as a 450rwhp car.
Now, I know we've already established that I'm very uninformed and bring no points worth considering to the table, so help me understand this. My understanding (and experience) has always been that as power increases, available traction decreases, all other things remaining the same. Do these A&A kits have a built in improbability drive or physics defeater of some sort?
Now, I know we've already established that I'm very uninformed and bring no points worth considering to the table, so help me understand this. My understanding (and experience) has always been that as power increases, available traction decreases, all other things remaining the same. Do these A&A kits have a built in improbability drive or physics defeater of some sort?
A Vette with 450 RWHP H/C and a Supercharged Vette with 550+ RWHP are going to have the same traction issues "Down Low", regardless. I shoulda clarified. But the F/I will keep on going and going.
Now as far as the Mustang COBRA I used as an example, that was my example I brought to the table. I seen you had brought out the comparison of Mustangs with Vortech superchargers.
Having owned and driven both (current with F/I) it's something you will understand once having the opportunity to drive both.
The F/I vehicle will drive like stock and act like stock while having a great deal of HP on tap, basically adds cubic inches to your motor as an example.
Thanks,Matt
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From: Republic of Texas
I would lean towards FI if you're worried about engine wear. Any FI setup is ONLY going to make boost when you put your foot into the go pedal. this means you engine is running pretty much normal about 90% of the time you're driving, resulting in no additional wear. When getting your car properly tuned for FI, you're not just maximizing power, but efficiency. Your car should run better even when not in boost. As long as you stay in the 6-8psi range, you can run FI on a factory motor all day long with no issues.
With new heads, you're spending a LOT of money to get very little improvement....Maybe 25rwhp if you did JUST the heads. A Head/cam swap may net you more, but this is going to put additional strain on your motor any time the car is running. You'll be making extra power weather you want it or not and your car's driving manners and fuel economy will reflect this. Even with a good tune, you will either see minimal gains or a drastic loss in fuel economy.
For the record, I put a Vortech Blower setup on my 97 with 142K miles. It held up just fine until the day i ran it over a curb being stupid.
With new heads, you're spending a LOT of money to get very little improvement....Maybe 25rwhp if you did JUST the heads. A Head/cam swap may net you more, but this is going to put additional strain on your motor any time the car is running. You'll be making extra power weather you want it or not and your car's driving manners and fuel economy will reflect this. Even with a good tune, you will either see minimal gains or a drastic loss in fuel economy.
For the record, I put a Vortech Blower setup on my 97 with 142K miles. It held up just fine until the day i ran it over a curb being stupid.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Jacksonville FL
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,789
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From: Jacksonville FL
I would lean towards FI if you're worried about engine wear. Any FI setup is ONLY going to make boost when you put your foot into the go pedal. this means you engine is running pretty much normal about 90% of the time you're driving, resulting in no additional wear. When getting your car properly tuned for FI, you're not just maximizing power, but efficiency. Your car should run better even when not in boost. As long as you stay in the 6-8psi range, you can run FI on a factory motor all day long with no issues.
With new heads, you're spending a LOT of money to get very little improvement....Maybe 25rwhp if you did JUST the heads. A Head/cam swap may net you more, but this is going to put additional strain on your motor any time the car is running. You'll be making extra power weather you want it or not and your car's driving manners and fuel economy will reflect this. Even with a good tune, you will either see minimal gains or a drastic loss in fuel economy.
For the record, I put a Vortech Blower setup on my 97 with 142K miles. It held up just fine until the day i ran it over a curb being stupid.
With new heads, you're spending a LOT of money to get very little improvement....Maybe 25rwhp if you did JUST the heads. A Head/cam swap may net you more, but this is going to put additional strain on your motor any time the car is running. You'll be making extra power weather you want it or not and your car's driving manners and fuel economy will reflect this. Even with a good tune, you will either see minimal gains or a drastic loss in fuel economy.
For the record, I put a Vortech Blower setup on my 97 with 142K miles. It held up just fine until the day i ran it over a curb being stupid.
Of course, another whole issue is preventing me from being stupid too
Team Owner
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 21,473
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From: Palmdale, Ca----- 2009 Cyber Gray 4LT A6 F55 452 RWHP 422 RWTQ- RIP 1998 C5 734 RWHP & 585 RWTQ-----
I'm in. Next nice day that you are available let me know and I'll head over your way. I'm in St. Johns County. Pm me or email rk_jenks@yahoo.com
Make sure you post on how you liked it!
Thanks,Matt
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Melting Slicks
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From: Jacksonville FL
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Iowa
I honestly can't understand how anyone can be using that much of the 550rwhp these cars make anywhere except on the drag strip. I know my Foxes were tough as hell to keep from blowing the tires off in gears 1-3 and they were 100 rwhp down from these blower C5s. Seems like a bit of a waste. 
A lot of people seem to like bragging about how they don't have traction and they are always running regular street tires. I think that's just asking for trouble. Besides, I hate spinning. I expect to hook and book!
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Melting Slicks
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From: Jacksonville FL
Just have to have the right tire. With Nitto 555R-II's, I have full traction from 2nd gear on if it's at least 60F outside. I'm at 572rwhp.
A lot of people seem to like bragging about how they don't have traction and they are always running regular street tires. I think that's just asking for trouble. Besides, I hate spinning. I expect to hook and book!
A lot of people seem to like bragging about how they don't have traction and they are always running regular street tires. I think that's just asking for trouble. Besides, I hate spinning. I expect to hook and book!
In regard to why anyone would ever want the power except on the dragstrip.... well I've never been to one and not sure I will do that with my own car until I get much wealthier... but I do enjoy going from 60mph to 100mph in a split second... also if I ever escape the traffic of Florida for some desolate roads I wouldn't mind getting the top end up to something that makes me **** my pants and back off... LOL
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Melting Slicks
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From: Jacksonville FL
Assuming I go that route I will get in touch and see if it makes sense for us to do business vs. my local shop (EFI Alchemy).
Thanks!
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From: Chicago South Suburbs
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They are good guys and have worked with our kits several times before. We are going to run a holiday sale soon so PM me when your ready if we have not posted it yet and I'll still give you the discount.
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Melting Slicks
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From: Jacksonville FL
You're right it is a BIG decision. I gotta be honest too, I'm just a tiny bit nervous that I'll spin it like a top right into the ditch or worse! I guess I will just take caution in learning the boundaries very carefully...
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From: Chicago South Suburbs
Thanks, I'll report back in when I decide. I'm leaning that way now even though I was leaning the other way when we started this thread.
You're right it is a BIG decision. I gotta be honest too, I'm just a tiny bit nervous that I'll spin it like a top right into the ditch or worse! I guess I will just take caution in learning the boundaries very carefully...
You're right it is a BIG decision. I gotta be honest too, I'm just a tiny bit nervous that I'll spin it like a top right into the ditch or worse! I guess I will just take caution in learning the boundaries very carefully...
You will learn to respect the power VERY quickly! And then you will learn to control it and enjoy it!
If you just hop in and smash that go pedal without the respect factor, you will be taking an early dirt nap in a box!
Overall it's the most fun you can have out of bed with your clothes on!
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Jacksonville FL
If you were not nervous or scared you would be stupid!
You will learn to respect the power VERY quickly! And then you will learn to control it and enjoy it!
If you just hop in and smash that go pedal without the respect factor, you will be taking an early dirt nap in a box!
Overall it's the most fun you can have out of bed with your clothes on!
You will learn to respect the power VERY quickly! And then you will learn to control it and enjoy it!
If you just hop in and smash that go pedal without the respect factor, you will be taking an early dirt nap in a box!
Overall it's the most fun you can have out of bed with your clothes on!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,728
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From: Iowa
That being said, I've driven mine in medium-heavy rain on drag radials that were on the wear bars in 50F weather. Never slipped once, but I took it slow on the highways. Respect the power. Respect the car. Drive safe, and you'll be fine!