100 octane
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,028
Likes: 170
From: oregon
Explain why the engine would pull timing with higher octane fuel? It certainly won't be seeing knock retard.
Also, to whomever said it, you don't need a scan tool to check codes.
Post the codes OP. I'm going to guess it has something to do with the evap system....just a SWAG.
Ron
Also, to whomever said it, you don't need a scan tool to check codes.
Post the codes OP. I'm going to guess it has something to do with the evap system....just a SWAG.
Ron
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,681
Likes: 47
From: Reno is so close to Hell you can see Sparks , State Of Confusion
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
Sorry about the rant guys, But I get so pissed off when someone doesn't read before they open the mouth and insert foot, In this case both feet.
Mr.Bill
Mr.Bill
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,028
Likes: 170
From: oregon
You sir, are a douchebag...Your little icons and pictures only serve to validate that. Furthermore, your a googling wannabe.
At no time did I say c16 was the fuel in question here, nor did I say it was 100 octane, so WHAT DON'T you understand? Racetracks and gas stations around the country are dealers of this fuel, and you generally dispense it to your own container. Leaded fuel is also in damn near every ga aircraft flying and it is "pumped", so your limited understanding of the distribution network and laws is obvious. There are gas stations around this country which distribute "off road use" fuels depending on the local market. So your little personal definition of what is "pump" gas and what isnt, is defined by your local market.
No one in this world knows-it-all, and I acknowledged being corrected on the lack of lead in the fuel in question per your google copy/paste, as I had no specific experience with that exact fuel, and misspoke (didnt google my answer first as you always have to). No one here will have a 100% instantaneous knowledge of the chemical compound of every commercially available fuel on the market. So your conclusions amount to dick.
Shut your trap already.
At no time did I say c16 was the fuel in question here, nor did I say it was 100 octane, so WHAT DON'T you understand? Racetracks and gas stations around the country are dealers of this fuel, and you generally dispense it to your own container. Leaded fuel is also in damn near every ga aircraft flying and it is "pumped", so your limited understanding of the distribution network and laws is obvious. There are gas stations around this country which distribute "off road use" fuels depending on the local market. So your little personal definition of what is "pump" gas and what isnt, is defined by your local market.
No one in this world knows-it-all, and I acknowledged being corrected on the lack of lead in the fuel in question per your google copy/paste, as I had no specific experience with that exact fuel, and misspoke (didnt google my answer first as you always have to). No one here will have a 100% instantaneous knowledge of the chemical compound of every commercially available fuel on the market. So your conclusions amount to dick.
Shut your trap already.
and you're the odd man out with the insults, ignorance and general high horse attitude?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,937
Likes: 348
From: My interests are mobile
I get along on here fine...i'm just not going to take a bunch of mouth from anyone...bottom line. I'm not on a high horse, but I'm not going to get in little battles with google engineers either.
Sorry if I offended you earlier, I just felt the price he paid made it painfully obvious he didnt put in e85, yet you kept advising him what to be aware of, inevitably potentially misinforming the guy. E85 wont even dispense from the same hose at the pump. I misspoke on the lead as well, so its a wash I guess. Inevitably though Old bill is a tool...period.
Sorry if I offended you earlier, I just felt the price he paid made it painfully obvious he didnt put in e85, yet you kept advising him what to be aware of, inevitably potentially misinforming the guy. E85 wont even dispense from the same hose at the pump. I misspoke on the lead as well, so its a wash I guess. Inevitably though Old bill is a tool...period.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,211
Likes: 4
From: Vancouver B.C.
100 octane will not hurt anything besides performance. Most of the time our cars pull timing with fuel use of this octane.
So it may not run as well...but certainly will not hurt anything. I would speculate the current codes are not associated.
As stated above dilute it with 87-89 octane once at 3/4 - 1/2 tank.
So it may not run as well...but certainly will not hurt anything. I would speculate the current codes are not associated.
As stated above dilute it with 87-89 octane once at 3/4 - 1/2 tank.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,028
Likes: 170
From: oregon
I have heard (or read) elsewhere that high octane fuel may cause the computer to pull timing. It's counter intuitive, but what supposedly happens is that the computer checks to see if the knock sensor is working by advancing timing. if no knock is detected at a specific advance that would normally cause knock, the computer assumes the knock sensor has failed and pulls timing to a fail safe level to protect the engine. The high octane fuel prevents knock at the advance setting used to test the sensor.
did any codes get pulled yet? that's really the next step needed to further the discussion.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,450
Likes: 410
From: Portland OR
I have heard (or read) elsewhere that high octane fuel may cause the computer to pull timing. It's counter intuitive, but what supposedly happens is that the computer checks to see if the knock sensor is working by advancing timing. if no knock is detected at a specific advance that would normally cause knock, the computer assumes the knock sensor has failed and pulls timing to a fail safe level to protect the engine. The high octane fuel prevents knock at the advance setting used to test the sensor.
Speaking of douchebags:
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 16,028
Likes: 170
From: oregon
good to know. i didn't think it did but have never actually watched the timing map in action so i really had no idea. made sense if it was the case, but, since it isn't.....
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,228
Likes: 9
From: Crossville TN
I run 100 octane unleaded in my road race car. It won't hurt the OP's car... just drive around some and then dilute it like other's have already said and it'll be fine. Certainly not worth it unless you are gaining an advantage using it (racing).
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,211
Likes: 4
From: Vancouver B.C.
"The PCM needs reassurance that the sensor will produce a signal at the proper time, so it periodically tests the sensor. This is part of the vehicle’s OBD II system, since knock sensor operation could have an effect on vehicle emissions. The PCM tests the sensor, when specific test prerequisites are met, by advancing the timing. It waits for the sensor to yell “Hey, it’s knocking out here.” If the sensor signal is never received, even with a high degree of spark advance, the PCM sets a knock sensor code."
Perhaps one of the test prerequisites is that data logging not be enabled?
http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1762
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 194
Likes: 1
From: Lemont IL
I can't say that I've ever seen 100 octane fuel cause a problem in an otherwise factory stock vehicle. 6 or 7 points higher is going to go unnoticed by the computer anyway.
While I agree that for $95, it's obviously not E85. However, a single tank of E85 isn't going to hurt anything either. The computer will compensate for the lack of fuel on it's own, and possibly throw a lean code. The worst that will happen, is with extended use, the alcohol will dry out seals, and cause issues with a few sensors. But I wouldn't sweat a tank.
Now, as for the CEL. I'd be interested to see what codes it's throwing. This could be a coincidence. I'm guessing he filled it with the car running...
Even a tank of leaded isn't going to cause any alarming issues. Again, with extended use, it'll coat, and eventually clog the cats, maybe freak out an 02 sensor. But thats really about the extent of it.
While I agree that for $95, it's obviously not E85. However, a single tank of E85 isn't going to hurt anything either. The computer will compensate for the lack of fuel on it's own, and possibly throw a lean code. The worst that will happen, is with extended use, the alcohol will dry out seals, and cause issues with a few sensors. But I wouldn't sweat a tank.
Now, as for the CEL. I'd be interested to see what codes it's throwing. This could be a coincidence. I'm guessing he filled it with the car running...
Even a tank of leaded isn't going to cause any alarming issues. Again, with extended use, it'll coat, and eventually clog the cats, maybe freak out an 02 sensor. But thats really about the extent of it.
Last edited by Sidewayz6.0; May 6, 2013 at 10:04 AM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,623
Likes: 51
From: Gastonia North Carolina
I never intended to steer someone in the wrong direction.
As far as leaded fuels go coming from a pump. Come to NC,SC,GA...they can be bought and pumped directly into a car and drive away from multiple stations. Theres a buick in my building that is a street car and will only run 108.
108-114 readily available within ten miles of my residence.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,937
Likes: 348
From: My interests are mobile
The real issue you'll see is when running methanol, not ethanol. Methanol is much more corrosive and harmful.
Just thought I'd tell you what I did back then. I think a lot of the E85 hype was potentially created to reduce the attempts of people with non-approved vehicles from using it due to its lower cost (though due to its BTU content, you actually burn more). The car I first ran it in was an early 90's car with a forced induction setup. It was funny for the gas station employees to go on and on how I couldn't pump that in or all hell was gonna break loose. Good times...good times...
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: Sevierville TN
Update
Got to see my friend that did the deed today and he said it was 100 octane unleaded he pumped and, he took it by his mechanic and the CEL was "something about the emission system that needed to be reset" and the mechanic said it was probably caused by the extra octane and to dilute it with lower octane when he runs some out of the tank and no harm was done (other than the hit to his wallet).
That's all he could tell me.
Sonny
That's all he could tell me.
Sonny