Your experience? Anyone wan to share their experience with there Blackwing? :)

 

12- 15 rwhp (LS1) and 13-17 rwhp (LS6) average gains on our dyno, is our experience with more sold and installed than we can count!!! its one of the best if not the best intake for the money, period. you can spend more for better looks, but, thats all you will get. we have not seen any intake ( rm racing, k@n, vortex, halltech, vararam, xtreme) dyno more than 2hp difference than the blackwing. its a steal. just my .02

Nate

 

The 02's have a tough time with a/f ratios and gains, you may on your 03 too. 01's with a screen in the MAF and different programming seem to be fine.

A Maftranslator will help a/f ratios but you may not want to go with that.

Select a cold air kit likem the Vortex or VaraRam, or wait a few weeks on another intake we are working with a manufacturer on that is plug and play.:)

RG

 

Read an article on the Blackwing(by a vette group) the wing whatever material it uses lets the most air thru and also takes out the smallest particles trying to get it , more air equals more HP. Do not go for a pretty face if it can not perform. Go for your Blackwing and save money from the other ones. :D :D :D

 

I'm very happy with mine. You'll read that some people have SES with Blackwing on 02's. I don't have that problem. Definitely noticed a sotp increase, That could be partially due to the car getting broken in, as well as the Blackwing. As for gain, I'll dyno my car with 5500 miles in the next 10 days, and will post results here.

RT

 

I run the Blackwing and a 2002 MAF with no problems and substantial power. When I switched from a bottom breather to the Blackwing, I had no surging or other issues.

 

We have installed over 10 Blackwings on 2002 models over the last 2-3 months. Dyno numbers were 13-17rwhp with no pinging/detonation and the air/fuel test was run on them as well, the cars still run rich. No need for MAF-T.

Nate


[Modified by Nate@xtreme, 9:30 AM 7/31/2002]

 

Maybe check the Z forum and see what's happening to their '02 cars after some miles.

RG


[Modified by RG in Dallas, 10:00 AM 7/31/2002]

 

I have one. It is a good air cleaner. People selling the product tend to inflate hp gains, in my opinion. I know two individuals who were not dealers who had 0 hp and torque gains after the install. Isn't it odd how people selling the product have such better results? I wonder why?

Don't kid yourself. If you could get the kind of hp gains mentioned above simply by sticking on a different air cleaner, don't you think GM would do that. :crazy:

 

I like mine. No problems. :cheers:

 

So you are saying that the Aftermarket Intake dealers are basically liars? Different cars react differently to different mods. I have proof that a simple Blackwing and Exhaust with zero tuning netted me 27hp and 21 ftlbs (00 Hardtop)14k miles.
The reason GM doesn't factory install these filters is that they have a greater chance of Hydrolock. and besides, they can periodically add a few hp by way of intake and get you to trade in your slower vette for a new faster one. Also, obviously GM can produce these cars with as much Horsepower as they want. They purposely keep the HP at a modest level because the Average Vette Owner isn't on this Forum, Is middle aged, likes comfort,Cruising ability, good looks and doesn't RACE.


[Modified by BRADS C5, 9:24 AM 8/1/2002]

 

Hmm... Well, the DEALERS all seem to admit that they intakes don't make the hp that the MAKERS webpages' claim. So I'll say, YES the makers, at least, are lying.

Go to some of the pages and read about the 35hp and nearly 0.4 second gains made from their air filters!!!

I have made the same argument that Steven has made, if GM could get 15+ hp THAT EASILY, they would have done it.

Read some of the stories on the 2002 Z06 and how hard they fought to get the LS-6 to 405hp. They significantly increased costs with things like sodium filled hollow exhaust valves so they could run a faster cam and titanium exhaust and such...

If they could have gotten 15+ hp from merely redesigning the air inlet systems, they would have done it.

It's the same engine in each one... If you make lots of mods, then yeah, you might see more gains from a mod than someone making the same mod on a stock engine. But - for the most part - a relatively stock Z06 in TX should see similar results from a mod as a relatively stock Z06 in SC...

This is Z06 discussion. I had a 2000 coupe before, and I did the Vortex air filter because I felt that the stock airbox on the coupe was significantly restrictive enough to be causing a bottleneck. I believe the gains on a coupe may be more significant than the Z06.

The Z06 box is designed with quite a bit more open area...

First, the Blackwing isn't a bottom breather and doesn't significantly increase your chances of hydrolock. Even with the bottom breathers, hydrolock is exceedingly rare.

Second, I just flat don't buy the "hp creep" argument. To begin with, GM hasn't really done it. A 2003 coupe has FIVE more hp than a 1997. And they did that WITHOUT changing the air intake tract if I am not mistaken.

I disagree. GM has to achieve a number of things while they are designing the powertrain.

They have to find a balance between COST, EMISSIONS, DRIVABILITY and probably a host of other things I am not thinking about.

If they make too much hp, then they have to beef up drivetrain, which raises cost. If they use too much fuel, they have to charge gas guzzler tax, which is something they have tried to avoid. If emissions are too bad, they flat can't make it because the govt won't let them.

I think the GM engineers are doing an incredible balancing act, to produce a car that performs like the Z06, still passes 50 state emissions and gets reasonable gas mileage at a somewhat reasonable price...




[Modified by Tom Steele, 10:09 AM 8/1/2002]

 

Tom,

Are you saying that there isn't an increase in hp from the Blackwing? If so, you are wrong.

I did a before and after dyno on mine and gained 17 hp.

 

May I ask some questions about your dyno testing?

Did the PCM have plenty of time to relearn the new filter?

An aftermarket air filter could lean out the engine - UNTIL THE LONG TERM TABLES CORRECTED IT - and give a temporary increase in hp with a new air filter. Unfortunately, those increases would not last if the PCM is seeing a lean condition (not really lean, just leaner than the OEM code allows for) and it eventually adjusts the tables to "correct" the problem.

Thus, you might measure an increase, but if you went back a week later it could be gone...

Was it on the same day?

Of course, weather is a huge factor in dyno testing.

 

Something I read in another section made me think of something interesting...

I would like to see someone START their DYNO TEST with a Blackwing (or any aftermarket filter setup) and THEN go back to stock and TEST.

Now that would be interesting to see...

 

I've never seen a 17 HP gain from an airbox, but I guess it is possible if your stock box or stock filter is in really bad shape. How was this test done? Did you do a run, replace the airbox, and then immediately do another run? I would not call that a fair test.

The airbox itself is not really responsible for the power increase on a dyno with no cold air coming in. The stock 2002 screenless MAF is designed to work with the stock airbox. When you replace the airbox on an 02 your can cause the MAF to report inaccurate readings. So you might be flowing 'X' parts air, but the MAF reports less than 'X' to the PCM, and the mixture goes lean. This lean situation is what actually causes the power increase.

After you drive around for a while the PCM should see the lean situation at the O2 sensors and fatten up the A/F ratio with positive LTFT values. If you re-dyno at this point you may find that most of your gains have gone away, but this can vary from car to car. The solution is to combine the cold air box with a MAFT or a good LS1edit tune.

FWIW, if you got 17 RWHP from just a BW install you could probably have gotten the same power if you just put a brand new K&N in your stock airbox and tweaked your A/F ratio with a MAFT or LS1Edit. I am not factoring in the benefits of cold air at speed, but you are not going to really get cold air on a dyno.

 

You didn't just put the blackwing in, you put in an exhaust system, which might allow more air and fuel flow. A combination of the two would account for your improvement. You haven't disproved my premise. Your car is different form other cars, but not that different to account for your change in performance.

 

A power gain, if any, will be less on a '02 engine than on prior models because of the '02's considerably larger inlet opening. The prior air box openings were somewhat restrictive because all GM vehicles have to pass a severe water ingestion test, but they apparently learned that they could open the inlet up and still pass the test, so a '02 airbox cover is a good upgrade to a prior model year cover.

I'm very skeptical of claimed power gains of four to five percent. This would indicate a loss of about 20" H2O through the air cleaner, which is substantial. A good OEM design will satisfy the engines air flow requirement with only 3" to 6" H2O loss. The OEM air filter itself has plenty of area - appears to have more total media area than many aftermarket filters - and is likely not very restictive, and the three to four times greater inlet opening on the '02 airbox cover substantially reduces the restiction caused by the small opening on the prior year covers.

As far as inlet temperature is concerned, I don't see any difference between OEM and aftermarket, because the inlet is ahead of the radiator shroud and exposed to relatively cool air, and "ram air" is just a marketing myth. Even if you had a "perfect" diffuser that could capture 100 percent of the airstream's dynamic pressure you would only increase air inlet density by about one-half of one percent at 100 MPH and one about one percent at 150, and there's very nearly a one to one correlation of observed power change with air density change.

Duke

 

The dyno was done three weeks after I installed it. Not only did the PCM have enough time, I actually went so far as to do the idle relearn.

 

I installed a Blackwing on my 2002 ZO6. It came as part of a full Magnuson SC kit from LPE, and I put the Blackwing on a week before I had the SC put on -- did the Blackwing myself.

It made no difference in the feel of the car. On the dyno, it showed nothing added (but nothing lost) below 4,500 RPM and only 3 HP above it.

The car had 5,500 miles on it, and had LPE long-tube headers already installed. The before and after dyno tests were done on the same Dynojet unit (but on different day, although the temp, etc., was very nearly identical). I think the dyno wasn't lying: Given that the torque and HP curves below 4,500 RPM on the before and after runs were nearly identical, I don't think the dyno was just having a bad day. Maybe the Blackwing does add a lot over the standard 'vette unit, but not the ZO6's.

Still, I'm not concerned. LPE recommended the Blackwing due to the increased air flow with the SC and I imagine it does provide noticeable help now the the SC is on the car.