I am a longtime Corvette fan, of all generations, and also long time owner/driver of Corvette. I appreciate and respect the history of earlier Corvettes, and am hopeful for the legacy to continue with future Corvette generations. Everyone (I think), who owns Corvette, thinks of performance, in some form or fashion. Guys have been modding cars, forever. Trying to keep up, with Corvette. In fact, I think some of the mystic of Corvette, is, that it comes from the factory; 'ready to race'. A true Sports Car ! Each year, the 'new' Corvette must have more power than the last, from the factory. Even if only 3 or 5 more HP. Tweaks, and upgrades to suspensions for better 'on track' handling, and so on and so on.

But then.....

Corvettes, the last 3 generations, have the Z06 (and also C6 ZR1), as the 'flagship of performance', right off the assembly line. These cars were built 'to race'. Lighter, more power, more agile cornering, new tire technology always on Corvette first. GM and Corvette has advertized them, as such, for a long time. New technology direct from the C5R, C6R, and now the C7R race teams/cars incorporated into the Corvettes and Z06's (and C6 ZR1) coming off the assembly lines in Bowling Green.

Corvettes Chief Engineer (for C7 Z06) was repeatedly quoted as saying 'this' new Z will be the most track ready Corvette ever produced! Really?

But, it appears if you really do take it to the track (the new C7 Z06), you can't race it over 4 laps, without it overheating!
The C6 Z06, with the LS7 engine, and it's time-bomb valves, is the other elephant in the china closet no one at GM will even talk about (publicly). Every perfromance shop in the country (which does work on Corvette) has a 'repair kit' fix for the LS7 heads, and the valve issue. If you read in the C6 Z06 forum, each week, there is a new thread or two, on some guy who 'threw a valve' out through the engine block wall. And everyone who buys a C6 Z06 is advised to 'get the valve wiggle test' right away. And still GM won't even talk about this.

And now, the new C7 Z06 is fine, as long as you don't really 'race it'. A race car that overheats, if you race it??? WTF? Every performance shop in the country, is right now, trying to figure out 'a fix' to the overheating issue. Hmmmmmm!!! Here we go, again..... it seems.

With all this said, some (in the C7 Z06 forum), claim there are similar 'issues' with Porsche, with Dodge Viper, and now SRT's, and others as well. I personally don't know enough about other cars, to know if this is true, or not. I"m mainly interested in a discussion about Corvette.

But this takes me to my question for discussion here. I"m wondering if 'they' have gone too far, on performance? Maybe I should say 'affordable performance'. The C7R race car engine only has to last one race, and they pull it and replace it. But, it will run for 24 hours (as in Le Mans) without overheating). Can GM build a car with this much performance, which will 'really hold up' as advertised? Did they release the new Z a year or two too soon, before more testing and engineering fixes to the overheating issue? What else don't we know yet, about this new car? Did they really not know this thing gets hot (oil temps up to 290 degrees) after only 20 minutes of hard track running? Did the magazines (ie motor trend, etc) not pick up on this, when they had these cars for testing? If not, Why Not? If GM had given me a C7 Z06 to test at Road America; they'd have had to come tow me in after running out of gas. I'd have never quit, in 15 minutes (or before it got hot). What were those guys with Motor Trend doing, and why didin't they report this? Didn't they notice?

Why has no one at GM ever dealt with the LS7 dropping valves? Shouldn't all those engines have been warrantied and fixed, by GM? There are guys SuperCharging C5 LS1's and LS6's with over 100,000 miles on them, and running the crap out of them; and they don't overheat..... or drop valves. They're reliable, and strong, for years!

Is this kind of power, in a mass production car, with full warranty; too much to promise from GM (or others)? What if GM takes the same route as they did on the LS7, and just simply refuse to admit there is a problem, at all, (the overheating of C7Z)? I'd hate to have to compare a 60 or 75 or 90 thousand dollar Corvette, to a $350,000 dollar Ferrari. Let's not go there....

But, a race car, built for racing, that you can't race without it overheating.... I remember (help me out here), that the earlier C4 ZR1, maybe in 1996, set some kind of endurance record. I think it was running 24 hours straight, and I think it was at Road Atlanta; averaging something like 175 MPH for the whole 24 hours. AND, it did not overheat !!! It was in all the performance magazines, and all were amazed at the capabilities of that car, at that time. And the new one, in 2015, can't run hard for 20 minutes (four laps), without overheating....

I fell in love with the looks of C7 Z06, when I saw it first (in person and up close) at the LA Auto Show. I liked C7 from the first, even the rear end which seemed to upset many. But frankly, I'm underwhelmed by C7, when it's sitting next to my SC C5. I've been considering a C7 Z06, in a year or two. But after all this I"ve been reading about in C7 Z Forum, and elswhere, overheating issues, and who knows what else; I'm simply going to fruther raise the power of my SuperCharged C5 instead.

So, how much power, is too much in a production car? Are these issues a failure of 'engineering and testing'? Did we cross a line, somewhere between C5 and C7? Can current 'affordable' technology harness this power reliably, affordably, so a 'working man' can buy one and expect the warranty to be honored, and the technology to be reliable, for years going forward beyond the warranty? Will future Corvettes (technology and cost), be out of reach, for middle class working guys like me?

And some are already talking about a mid-engine C8.....

Your thoughts on the future of Corvette???


Don

 

1000hp

 

When you start going backwards in time, you've found too much power. Up to that point, enjoy every last HP you can.

 

I think the OP made some valid points. However I have not been following the C7Z (issues) so I was not aware of problems. That is a downer to hear about it overheating so bad....and quickly, if what was posted is accurate. However, one must wonder how well a SC car at this level would hold up under those extreme pressures. Especially with all of the electrical nannies that are wrapped up in this thing. Honestly, I have kinda wandered the same question about how much power is too much?? I just had a mild 418ci finished up and w/o DR's on it, or ease of the "go fast" pedal, the first 3 gears are useless. So I cant IMAGINE this nasty motor on the street. Just also finished reading up on the new 645 N/A HP ACR Viper. We as a people are really pushing the envelope for street use. I am excited, yet nervous all at the same time. Interesting topic. I hope others chime in their thoughts.

 

I would say around 900, maybe 950 to the wheels, is perfect for a boosted street car... I have seen people have nothing but problems once they get into the 1k+ mark and at that point it's just about who has more power on paper

 

With more power comes more heat....fact of life. Even with my little 700hp I get heat soaked within a very short time. I don't actually race any, so I just have OEM cooling. But even with better cooling, extended periods of all out racing will generate LOTS of HEAT!

For us budget conscience guys.....it's going to be a balancing act of what we want, how long can we use it, and how long it'll last!

 

Most c7z IMO will be at car meets and shows and just a shiny garage queen....yes some will drive them hard on the street, but how many will buy it to actually race? Probably not that many, and once its figured out we will never hear about it again....quite honestly I had a 525 RWHP turbo 370z, which by many standards is not a lot of power, but it would not hesitate to kill you when 460 lbs of tq hit the rear wheels and demolish re-11,pss you name it, on that chassis anyway it was at the upper limit for a safe street car...while 7-8-9 1k+ hp cars are awesome they belong on a race track, period, yes it is fun to play with it on the street but it is endangering others...and this is coming from a guy who constantly street raced in my youth... I was prepared to buy a c6 z06 ot GS but I ended up saying what for, for me, it would be the wow you have a z06 factor and I like the c6 widebody, but in the end I decided I wanted a reliableish quick street car that still doesnt look half bad, and will not break the bank, enter c5. I plan on modding to no more than 400 whp, but doing suspension wheels, brakes, and breather mods first. By today's standards it is slow in the performance car world, but is it enough power? I think so for the street, yes the adrenaline rush from hundreds of HP is awesome, I love it, but I do not race and if I did it will not be rolling drags or top speed runs, Id be a road course type. From my experience depending on weight and platform, 350-450 WHP is truly enough to be driven at the limit in the streets and is enough, but dang if I had the money would I build a high HP project car, heck ya. I saw 2 c7 z06s this weekend, gorgeous work of art, but could NEVER drop that kind of cash on a new car that I could build for less, just my way. Kudos for anyone that has and financially can, enjoy your beautiful rides as you watch us peons drool! flame way!

 

well that's not always true, not all people think they are better than everyone else

 

Agreed. Also, each track is obviously different, so, depending on the track, certain types of cars do better on one than another type. For example, those with long straights, sweepers... A car with more power will obviously have an advantage over one with less. Most tracks are a combination of decent sized straights, and tight turns, so one with the best overall package (brakes, power, suspension, handling, balance, etc) will be more capable.

On the street, I kind of agree that 500 WHP is plenty, especially for a 3100 LBS RWD car. With that kind of power, you typically have to pedal 1st and most of 2nd gear with the best street tires. I currently have 640 WHP after supercharging, and although I love it, I have to admit, I miss being able to hammer it at any speed and get plenty of traction in warm weather / good road conditions (when bolt on - 386 WHP). In order to get the "full effect" of my power on the street, I would be knocking on triple digit speed's door, which can obviously be dangerous, and "criminal". Even with my new sticky Toyo R888s.

 

Even @ 718 ft lbs of TQ I want more.....!
Is it ever enough...?

 

Nothing but curvy mountain roads here, anything much over 400hp is almost useless, I play around with a buddy in his 800+hp Supra.. On our favorite road he can't leave me and mine is a stock 99 auto.. 1,000hp is probably fun going straight or maybe in a dedicated road course car but on roads like we have here it either means excessive wheel spin or traction control knocking down the power anyway

 

I like power and lots of it, but in the mountains and back roads of NC my nearly stock 02 Z06 has more power than I can use for the most part. Plus, I'm getting to a point in life that a hot car with a camshaft that knocks my fillings loose every time I drive it is not so important. Impressing the idiot in the ricer beside me at the stop light just doesn't matter anymore.

My club took a nice cruise up through Skyline Drive in the VA Shenandoah mountains recently and I had significantly more power than my co-pilot could tolerate. Plus, now that the interstate highways are getting more and more crowded with really stupid and careless drivers talking on their phones and texting it is more important than ever to drive defensively.

So I tend to be more observant of the local traffic rules and those paid to enforce them even though most people seem to take the posted speed limits as suggestions and not laws. Could I outrun and out handle most of the cars around me at any given time? Probably. Does it matter? Not really. I've found that most people appreciate a clean, shiny Corvette that they can actually see as opposed to a streak as one passes by.

To each his own. I've been on both sides of the coin. My 1980 Corvette is set up to run, but it is far more temperamental than my 2002 and not nearly as much fun to drive these days. So how much is too much? Only an individual owner can answer that. GM should be more aware of the limitations they have engineered into the newer cars but I'm not aware of any car ever built in the good old USA that didn't need a bunch of mods to be able to go racing.

 

I'm in the NC mountains too, I agree

 

I read an interview once with a WWII Russian Ace. He stated in the interview that the American P-40 that they used was every bit the performance match to the German Me109, which surprised the interviewer since the US Army Air Force didn't have as good a record with the plane against its german counterparts. The Russian replied that the plane was a dog IF you limited its engine power to keep to American reliability standards, but since the Russians wanted to win the war at all costs they didn't care if they had to replace engines at a rapid rate.

With regards to what the OP is saying, the paradigm is still performance, reliability and cost...pick any two. This is further complicated because the corvette is not a single use machine. I am quite certain the GM has the resources to make even a 800hp Z06 dead reliable on a race track...however would a waxer that just likes the "idea" of owning a high power car want to pay for a cooling system that they would never use?

 

you know you have enough when you can stay in front of your friends LoL!

before i bought my c5z I walked away from a 650rwhp c5 it was just to much for me hell of a car but power was useless i dont find it fun braking tires loose at 85mph, I think upto 500rwhp is plenty for the street (for me)

 

I think your buddy needs some better tires... power like that is useless on regular street tires, drag radials become pretty much mandatory if you want to have any fun

 

This. I learned it the hard way. 500/521 to the tires and the GY Eagle F1 GSD3's on the rear (295/35-18) were USELESS. Upgraded to Nitto NT555R Drag Radials (one of the BEST all around DR's for street use IMO) and no more traction issues, though they were beginning to talk a bit when I bumped it up to 761/760 at the tires. Car now has MT E.T. Street Radials and another bump in power and so far it's been fine.

 

I'm not into drag (or street) racing...so, my angle:

Anything over about 450-500 NA rwhp at a roadracing track and a C5Z can start to get silly IMO. These things are already beasts with that HP level in the higher rpm ranges, especially through tricky corners/surfaces, etc. That power level can already get you into big trouble if you're not careful.

Anything more than that and the car starts to suit other purposes much better IMO (drag racing).

For a straight line, drag/street car...give me 1000hp (on drag radials)!

 

500 isn't much these days I think 850-950 is the sweet spot..

 

Horse Power: More is good. Too much is just right!

Frank