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Sorry for all the dumb questions but I'll try and make this my last one. Why is it harder to do maintenance on a mid engine car. I have never actually got a good look at one to know how they work . How do you access the engines on them.
It's a question of packaging.
Basically, the engine is where the back seat should be, surrounded by (1) rear suspension/wheels to the sides, (2) cockpit firewall to the front, (3) roof (fixed or convertible) from the top, and (4) trunk to the rear. (Assuming a rear trunk...if there isn't one, luggage space is even further compromised than usual.) The only "normal" access is from the bottom.
On a Porsche Boxster (for example), to get at the top of the engine requires lowering the roof part way (to get the roof cover open), removing the package tray/rear speakers, and then removing a metal engine cover, just to get to the point that you can see the engine. (Hint: changing the air filter is 1/2 hour labor charge and requires every minute of it.) To get at the front of the engine, you remove the seats and rear firewall carpet and yet another metal engine cover, and then work from inside the cockpit; that's for what should be simple jobs like belt replacement. There are a lot of jobs people routinely do in their garages on C5s that require transaxle and/or engine removal on the Porsche...hell, there are external engine parts that you can't even see without dropping the whole drivetrain.
Most Ferraris are even worse, with costs for normal 10000km service running into multiple $K.
And access aside, there's just a less space holding the same amount of drivetrain: everything is stuffed in even tighter than normal.
The Boxster/cayman is difficult due to their instance to have a usable trunk/hatch area.
Mid-engine 'can' be reasonably service-friendly if the whole rear clamshell tilts to expose the engine. Then it looks the front end of a C4 vette See Noble/Rossion, Ford GT, etc. Normal service is not too hard.
This much reduced practicality makes me very skeptical of the mid engine layout. My father has a cayman, he is shorter than me so he fits fine, I find it cramped. The front, even without the engine, still has a lot of space taken up by the radiator, steering rack, and other stuff. There is a cubbyhole in front, but it isn't huge or well shaped. You could probably get 2 medium sized duffle bags. There is space under the rear hatch also, but pile it up too high and it blocks the rear view. I have no idea what is involved in servicing the engine.
Other mid engined cars with big engines such as the old Ford GT, Lambos, etc are huge. Until I saw a Lambo in person I didn't realize they were that big, and no space to carry anything.
For a corvette to be successful, it has to be practical, not just a track toy.
You bring up a good point on the front cubby space. On mid engine cars that have removable tops you can forget about putting anything in there when the top is off.
Thanks for explaining it to me guys I really appreciate it. It seems these mid engine cars take all the fun out of working on your own car. That's one of the things I love about the corvettes is how easy they are to work on.
You bring up a good point on the front cubby space. On mid engine cars that have removable tops you can forget about putting anything in there when the top is off.
The Boxster had a truly amazing amount of luggage space in the two trunks.
The annoying part was, as soon as you added a passenger, everything else had to go in the trunk, including cameras, coolers, coats, and all the other things you normally want access to from inside the cabin on a long drive.
The other annoying thing was that I really wanted the seat to go back maybe another 1/2", but the seat back was slammed dead solid against the firewall...and I'm only 5'10".
Last edited by Lee DeRaud; Jun 24, 2015 at 07:16 PM.
The Boxster/cayman is difficult due to their instance to have a usable trunk/hatch area.
Mid-engine 'can' be reasonably service-friendly if the whole rear clamshell tilts to expose the engine. Then it looks the front end of a C4 vette See Noble/Rossion, Ford GT, etc. Normal service is not too hard.
The Ford GT
Yeah, but again, what is acceptable in a low-production pseudo-racer won't fly in a car meant to be used as, well, a car, as opposed to a toy or status symbol. Even (most of?) the mid-engine Ferraris have rear trunks these days.
For those who haven't seen one opened up, here's a Boxster "engine bay":
I think I opened up mine twice the two years I owned it, and one of those times was during a smog check.
Last edited by Lee DeRaud; Jun 24, 2015 at 08:02 PM.
Additional random fun fact: getting at the engine bay on the latest generation Porsches is such a kabuki dance, they've changed the rules for club concours events to eliminate the engine bay from the judging process.
The C-7 has another 6-12 years of run, and they (GM)ainn't dumb enough to build a car to really compete with the Vette.
The new Ford will cost twice the Vette, so it really won't compete either.
"Ainn't dumb enough"
You're right though a totally different format would compete for Ferrari and Lambo owners business. Or anyone else that wants to spend that type of coin.
I'd love to drive a mid engine v8 or turbo 6 corvette, especially AWD! I'd never in my life be able to buy one but damn it would be awesome to raise hell in it on these curvy roads where I live!
GM could probably build a mid-engine Corvette at a price comparable to the C7...if they committed to building them in current production numbers.
The question is, can they sell that car in those numbers? Take a C7, reduce the cabin size to the point where a 6-footer won't fit, reduce the luggage capacity to the point where a couple can't take it on a 5-day trip, and turn routine maintenance into something that simply cannot be done without a lift (or worse, dropping the engine and/or transaxle), and see how many actually make it out the dealer door over the long haul.
(Analogy: Porsche sells a lot more 911s than they do Boxsters/Caymans, despite the mid-engine cars being cheaper and handling better.)
Exactly. I've done a couple road trips in my Z06 and I love how much you can fit in there and how comfortable it is.
I'd love to drive a mid engine v8 or turbo 6 corvette, especially AWD! I'd never in my life be able to buy one but damn it would be awesome to raise hell in it on these curvy roads where I live!
Now there's where I think buyers would have a bigger problem; a 6 cylinder, regardless of power/balance. I think they'd lose a lot of sales moving to a 6. A smaller supercharged or turbo V8, OK. Just my 2 cents.
GM should introduce the mid-engine supercar – as a Cadillac. In addition, keep the Vette as the front-engine, semi-affordable, fast and road-trip-capable GT car it has always been.
The Caddy could easily come in 2 flavors:
Decaf, with the 3.6l TT V6 from the current ATS-V, making a bit under 500hp; priced where the current Vette leaves off; around $90k
Full-caf V-series, with a 640hp+ blown V8; priced $125k or so.
This would be exactly what VW group did with the R8. People are not going to purchase a 100k+ mid-engine VW; but they routinely purchase $60k+ sports sedans (based on cheap VW’s) and they’ve had a nice success with the R8.
Think about it: The biggest complaint about new Vettes has always been having to deal with the Chevy dealership. Cadillac does better in this regard.
Think about it: The biggest complaint about new Vettes has always been having to deal with the Chevy dealership. Cadillac does better in this regard.
Lot of truth there. Go to a Chevy dealer. Then go to a Porsche, Mercedes, or Lexus dealer. A very different experience. The last Cadillac dealer i visited wasn't much better than the Chevy dealer.
I've been thinking of replacing my 18 year old Tahoe. Every time I talk to a Chevy dealer, I decide I would rather spend my money with my mechanic.
GM should introduce the mid-engine supercar – as a Cadillac. In addition, keep the Vette as the front-engine, semi-affordable, fast and road-trip-capable GT car it has always been.
The Caddy could easily come in 2 flavors:
Decaf, with the 3.6l TT V6 from the current ATS-V, making a bit under 500hp; priced where the current Vette leaves off; around $90k
Full-caf V-series, with a 640hp+ blown V8; priced $125k or so.
Now there's where I think buyers would have a bigger problem; a 6 cylinder, regardless of power/balance. I think they'd lose a lot of sales moving to a 6. A smaller supercharged or turbo V8, OK. Just my 2 cents.
Yeah, that's why V6 Camaros are outselling the V8s 3:1.
Yeah, that's why V6 Camaros are outselling the V8s 3:1.
That's due to budget constraints for most people. Women who buy cars are more likely to buy for looks rather than power, so you have to pull them out of that equation. But for men, it's about the cost of stepping up.
That's due to budget constraints for most people. Women who buy cars are more likely to buy for looks rather than power, so you have to pull them out of that equation. But for men, it's about the cost of stepping up.
And of course women have zero input into mens' Corvette purchases.
You need to get out more.
The new Ford GT V6 is the benchmark to beat. Corvette can kiss it's *** goodbye at Lemans. Ford went straight into the next level of Total Performance with their design. Just like 50 years ago with the GT40.
I have a Pantera and I can tell you the driving fun factor of it to the C5 is a world of difference. I like my C5, don't get me wrong. However it is not a mid engine car.
Yeah, that's why V6 Camaros are outselling the V8s 3:1.
COMPLETELY different, 100%.
The Chevy Cruze also outsells the V6 Camaro, because it's not an enthusiasts car, nor is a V6 Camaro. The Corvette is somewhat of an icon. I stand by my point that if Chevy switched to a V6 on a CORVETTE they would lose sales...
Designer Imagines A Corvette That Looks More Like a Corvette Than the Corvette
Slideshow: A Jaguar designer's personal project imagines what a modern front-engined Corvette might look like if Chevrolet revisited the golden age of the Stingray.
See Noble/Rossion, Ford GT, etc. Normal service is not too hard. 
