Nice explanation 
Manual Driving Tips
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 156
Likes: 28
From: Lombard IL
In first I just disengage the clutch to prevent lurching... if I need to let the car coast for anything longer than a couple seconds in that situation I'll just put her in neutral and let her roll along via momentum.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 400
Likes: 28
From: St. Paul (smokey!) MN
My corvette is my first manual car, so my experience is the same as yours. I still am not comfortable with quick launches, and haven't figured out the correct rpms for rev matching on downshifts.
Anyway, I think some of the lurching may be due to you be unaccustomed to manuals vs autos. In an auto, when coasting at low speed the torque converter unlocks and freewheels- there is slippage between the wheels and engine.
With the manual, there is no slippage unless you depress the clutch pedal. When coasting, you are engine braking and the effect is more pronounced in 1st gear.
When I approach red stop lights, I shift into neutral and coast to the light. I've read that it is hard on the throw out bearing to sit idling with your foot on the clutch.
Anyway, I think some of the lurching may be due to you be unaccustomed to manuals vs autos. In an auto, when coasting at low speed the torque converter unlocks and freewheels- there is slippage between the wheels and engine.
With the manual, there is no slippage unless you depress the clutch pedal. When coasting, you are engine braking and the effect is more pronounced in 1st gear.
When I approach red stop lights, I shift into neutral and coast to the light. I've read that it is hard on the throw out bearing to sit idling with your foot on the clutch.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,283
Likes: 355
From: Iowa
I still have trouble with first gear even though I've driven manual for years. I think my problems is that in order to get a smooth take off I feel like I'm slipping the clutch too much and too worried about wear and tear. I don't have problems with any other gears and even WOT shifts are near perfect.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,644
Likes: 479
From: OK
I still have trouble with first gear even though I've driven manual for years. I think my problems is that in order to get a smooth take off I feel like I'm slipping the clutch too much and too worried about wear and tear. I don't have problems with any other gears and even WOT shifts are near perfect.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Bel Air MD
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,644
Likes: 479
From: OK
Want to know how bad your existing throttle response is??? When you press the
gas pedal in your CORVETTE 50% or HALF WAY DOWN you're actually getting less than 15% of the throttle blade open. Worse
yet, when your taking it easy and only stepping on the throttle 1/4 or we'll say 25% down, you're actually not getting
much more than 3% of the engine's throttle blade open. This why ELECTRONIC THROTTLE cars don't feel like they have much
Copied and pasted from the Chuck CoW booster ad...
gas pedal in your CORVETTE 50% or HALF WAY DOWN you're actually getting less than 15% of the throttle blade open. Worse
yet, when your taking it easy and only stepping on the throttle 1/4 or we'll say 25% down, you're actually not getting
much more than 3% of the engine's throttle blade open. This why ELECTRONIC THROTTLE cars don't feel like they have much
Copied and pasted from the Chuck CoW booster ad...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,644
Likes: 479
From: OK
Not sure how or exactly what it does... this is what I do know.
It took SEVERAL years to crack the code to manipulate the C6 accelerator issues... some of that has trickled down to the C5 and he can significantly change the way your cars throttle response works... when he did our tune it's one of the FIRST things he did... I almost would have been satisfied if he had stopped there...it was amazingly different in a GOOD way! I'm glad we finished the tune though.... holy crap *****!
It took SEVERAL years to crack the code to manipulate the C6 accelerator issues... some of that has trickled down to the C5 and he can significantly change the way your cars throttle response works... when he did our tune it's one of the FIRST things he did... I almost would have been satisfied if he had stopped there...it was amazingly different in a GOOD way! I'm glad we finished the tune though.... holy crap *****!
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Racer
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 400
Likes: 28
From: St. Paul (smokey!) MN
Want to know how bad your existing throttle response is??? When you press the
gas pedal in your CORVETTE 50% or HALF WAY DOWN you're actually getting less than 15% of the throttle blade open. Worse
yet, when your taking it easy and only stepping on the throttle 1/4 or we'll say 25% down, you're actually not getting
much more than 3% of the engine's throttle blade open. This why ELECTRONIC THROTTLE cars don't feel like they have much
Copied and pasted from the Chuck CoW booster ad...
gas pedal in your CORVETTE 50% or HALF WAY DOWN you're actually getting less than 15% of the throttle blade open. Worse
yet, when your taking it easy and only stepping on the throttle 1/4 or we'll say 25% down, you're actually not getting
much more than 3% of the engine's throttle blade open. This why ELECTRONIC THROTTLE cars don't feel like they have much
Copied and pasted from the Chuck CoW booster ad...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,900
Likes: 1,074
From: Wisconsin
Not to mention:
There has been deaths due to electronic throttles.
Software or electronic failures within the ETC have been suspected by some to be responsible for alleged incidents of unintended acceleration.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 483
Likes: 47
From: Bridgewater NJ
I have a cammed manual car as well. My lurching doesn't seem as prominent as yours but I totally understand how it limits your ability in parking lots. The minimum speed I can drive is ~8-9 mph with the clutch in due to an idle at 1K and some lurching.
Personally, I use momentum a lot in my manual driving and just coast in neutral, especially at parking lot speeds. The car rolls a lot farther than you think it would in neutral. Before I even get to the parking space I put it in neutral and let go of the clutch, (or keep it in 1st and hold the clutch all the way in) so I can focus more on accurate parking/positioning in the space/brake modulation. Also, if I'm in very slow traffic, it makes sense to give at bit more room in front of me than most others, put it in first and get to 15 mph or so and then just put it in neutral and coast between the pulses of traffic. Otherwise you will constantly be engaging/disengaging the clutch and slipping it unnecessarily which puts extra wear and is tiring. The clutch is not the easiest to change; trust me I did it myself.
Personally, I use momentum a lot in my manual driving and just coast in neutral, especially at parking lot speeds. The car rolls a lot farther than you think it would in neutral. Before I even get to the parking space I put it in neutral and let go of the clutch, (or keep it in 1st and hold the clutch all the way in) so I can focus more on accurate parking/positioning in the space/brake modulation. Also, if I'm in very slow traffic, it makes sense to give at bit more room in front of me than most others, put it in first and get to 15 mph or so and then just put it in neutral and coast between the pulses of traffic. Otherwise you will constantly be engaging/disengaging the clutch and slipping it unnecessarily which puts extra wear and is tiring. The clutch is not the easiest to change; trust me I did it myself.
Last edited by beboggled; Sep 11, 2015 at 03:34 AM.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Bel Air MD
I have a cammed manual car as well. My lurching doesn't seem as prominent as yours but I totally understand how it limits your ability in parking lots. The minimum speed I can drive is ~8-9 mph with the clutch in due to an idle at 1K and some lurching.
Personally, I use momentum a lot in my manual driving and just coast in neutral, especially at parking lot speeds. The car rolls a lot farther than you think it would in neutral. Before I even get to the parking space I put it in neutral and let go of the clutch, (or keep it in 1st and hold the clutch all the way in) so I can focus more on accurate parking/positioning in the space/brake modulation. Also, if I'm in very slow traffic, it makes sense to give at bit more room in front of me than most others, put it in first and get to 15 mph or so and then just put it in neutral and coast between the pulses of traffic. Otherwise you will constantly be engaging/disengaging the clutch and slipping it unnecessarily which puts extra wear and is tiring. The clutch is not the easiest to change; trust me I did it myself.
Personally, I use momentum a lot in my manual driving and just coast in neutral, especially at parking lot speeds. The car rolls a lot farther than you think it would in neutral. Before I even get to the parking space I put it in neutral and let go of the clutch, (or keep it in 1st and hold the clutch all the way in) so I can focus more on accurate parking/positioning in the space/brake modulation. Also, if I'm in very slow traffic, it makes sense to give at bit more room in front of me than most others, put it in first and get to 15 mph or so and then just put it in neutral and coast between the pulses of traffic. Otherwise you will constantly be engaging/disengaging the clutch and slipping it unnecessarily which puts extra wear and is tiring. The clutch is not the easiest to change; trust me I did it myself.
A slightly separate but related question for you guys, how many of you double clutch when down shifting? As far a I know it isn't necessary with a synchronized trans but was just curious if anyone does it? Currently I just choose the gear that appropriate for the speed I am going and where I want the motor in the powerband and rev match while releasing the clutch. That is fine to go from say 6th to 4th or from 5th to 3rd correct? The only reason I ask is because with the rear mounted trans of the C5 the synchros have more work to do changing the speed of the entire driveline up to the motor.
Racer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 361
Likes: 34
From: Central MA
OP, one thing you need to do is when going from a stop and leaving in First you need to add RPMs to get up to a reasonable speed to fully engage the clutch sooner without stalling the car. If you are riding/slipping the clutch all the way through first and only let it become fully engaged about the time for Second you are putting unnecessary wear on it. If someone is in front of you let them go and just delay your motion.
Replacing a clutch on these cars is a significant effort due to the torque tube design. No just dropping the driveshaft and removing the bell housing.
Everything else in your Post 1 seems fine.
Mr. Sam
Replacing a clutch on these cars is a significant effort due to the torque tube design. No just dropping the driveshaft and removing the bell housing.
Everything else in your Post 1 seems fine.
Mr. Sam
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,835
Likes: 302
From: Columbia SC
I have no idea what RPMs I leave at but I can check the next time I go for a drive. Yes, you need to raise the RPMs some and then start letting the clutch engage to start moving. Just practice so it is a shortened time and smooth.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,283
Likes: 355
From: Iowa
Thanks for the tips
A slightly separate but related question for you guys, how many of you double clutch when down shifting? As far a I know it isn't necessary with a synchronized trans but was just curious if anyone does it? Currently I just choose the gear that appropriate for the speed I am going and where I want the motor in the powerband and rev match while releasing the clutch. That is fine to go from say 6th to 4th or from 5th to 3rd correct? The only reason I ask is because with the rear mounted trans of the C5 the synchros have more work to do changing the speed of the entire driveline up to the motor.
A slightly separate but related question for you guys, how many of you double clutch when down shifting? As far a I know it isn't necessary with a synchronized trans but was just curious if anyone does it? Currently I just choose the gear that appropriate for the speed I am going and where I want the motor in the powerband and rev match while releasing the clutch. That is fine to go from say 6th to 4th or from 5th to 3rd correct? The only reason I ask is because with the rear mounted trans of the C5 the synchros have more work to do changing the speed of the entire driveline up to the motor.
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Bel Air MD
Racer
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 428
Likes: 30
Smooth shifting, is all about rev matching. Not easy on a C5, but a few years ago, I had a 1930 Model A with a 3 speed, no synchros. Although, I learned long before that, other than taking off in 1st, if done right, matching revs, and load you can shift up, and down without even using the clutch. Better with a clutch though. It takes practice to shift smooth. I can shift a manual much smoother than most automatics. I have driven more than one car back home with broken clutch linkage, by starting the car in first gear with the starter, and rev matching through the gears. You should be able to shift your car seamlessly, up, or down, if done right. Being able to operate all 3 pedals with 2 feet is a very important technique to learn!
Last edited by REDHOTS; Sep 11, 2015 at 06:32 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 151
Likes: 40
From: Northville, MI
Driving the M6
Like you I'm getting used to driving a manual again. I came to the US from UK 10yrs ago, and before I came I only drove manual (first was a Mini 1275GT, last was Audi A4 - all manual). My 99 vette (bought from Buds a few weeks back) feels surprising natural to drive, but it does take more thought than an auto (I've also got a 2015 Durango R/T).
Modern cars have drive-by-wire for shift quality improvements, but the old school vette requires a delicate touch if you're just cruising. I find that to get a smooth pull away without the jerk, just give the clutch a tiny amount more pressure when you feel the biting point approaching jerk and give a bit more power at the same time. That smooths it out nicely.
Regarding double-declutching, I do it a lot, especially if down shifting to over take in a 'spirited manner'. It makes for a much smoother shift! Mind you, my old mini (no 2nd gear synchromesh) meant that's how I rolled
The Corvette has a synchromesh of course - but it's still a lot nicer (and better for the transmission) to D-DC.
Modern cars have drive-by-wire for shift quality improvements, but the old school vette requires a delicate touch if you're just cruising. I find that to get a smooth pull away without the jerk, just give the clutch a tiny amount more pressure when you feel the biting point approaching jerk and give a bit more power at the same time. That smooths it out nicely.
Regarding double-declutching, I do it a lot, especially if down shifting to over take in a 'spirited manner'. It makes for a much smoother shift! Mind you, my old mini (no 2nd gear synchromesh) meant that's how I rolled
The Corvette has a synchromesh of course - but it's still a lot nicer (and better for the transmission) to D-DC.