Alternator/Charge System Faults - Bill Curle?
03-22-2016, 03:22 PM
#1
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Alternator/Charge System Faults - Bill Curle?
02 Z06 - Daily Driver w/60k
Battery about one year old.
Around the new year I ran into the ignition problems with the prolonged cranking but would still run. I went ahead and pulled the ignition out and cleaned the fingers up like Bill Curle (spelling?) suggested and it 100% fixed the problem.
This past weekend I'm headed home and notice that the voltage is jumping around from 9.5 all the way up to 15. Of course I get ABS/TC/AH messages on the DIC and cluster. I get home and turn the car over and it fires up with no messages and acceptable voltage reading 13.3-14.0ish. Following day I'm driving along and get the same circus, weird voltages readings and all that. Pull the terminals off the battery and it reads 12.3ish so a little low but not crazy. Reconnect the terminals and fire it up, im at 15.0+ with a high voltage warning on the DIC now. WTF.
Take the alternator off and run up the local autozone, guy tests it 3x and states it passes/acceptable. I tell him to order me a new alternator. My thought is maybe this is a hit or miss kind of deal with the voltage regulator. New one comes in, slap it on and instantly displays 'Charge System Faults' with a reading of 11.8, so I shut her down and test the voltage at the battery again 12.3ish so i throw the charger on and get it back to 12.7. Reconnect terminals and hit the key, no messages in the DIC and were at 14.8-15.3, take it around the block and no change. A/C, lights whatever you want on and I cant get it to drop or raise much.
I start looking on the forums, see that if you take a wire from the battery terminal on the alternator and connect the positive terminal you can remove the IPC reading within the dash and the dash read out will display the a more accurate reading from the alternator? During this evolution I read 11.8 on DIC during this test and 11.8 without the wire being connected. Remove the wire and the car is now idling, voltage at the terminals reads 11.8, shut the car down with the terminals connected it reads 11.8 and remove the terminals the battery voltage is 12.3, where is the draw???
Take the battery out and place a good battery out of the C4 ZR-1 that is 2 years old and sitting on a trickle charge, throw it in. Car reads 11.8 running at the battery terminals and 11.8 at the DIC, remove terminals and battery is 12.5.
Put the car on the lift and start cleaning the starter solenoid junction, the nut was a little loose and there was some corrosion but nothing crazy or likely. Cleaned the loops up so their cleaner then ever and snug it all down and start the car, 'charge system faults' with a DIC reading of 11.4 volts at idle. Rev the car to 2kish and instantly kicks up to 14.0-14.3 and once back on idle its now sitting at 14.0-14.3. Take it around the block and solid 13.9-14.3 with A/C, lights and various loads on it.
Where am I at with this? Not sure 14.0s are acceptable for a battery that is in good shape. Input appreciated.
Battery about one year old.
Around the new year I ran into the ignition problems with the prolonged cranking but would still run. I went ahead and pulled the ignition out and cleaned the fingers up like Bill Curle (spelling?) suggested and it 100% fixed the problem.
This past weekend I'm headed home and notice that the voltage is jumping around from 9.5 all the way up to 15. Of course I get ABS/TC/AH messages on the DIC and cluster. I get home and turn the car over and it fires up with no messages and acceptable voltage reading 13.3-14.0ish. Following day I'm driving along and get the same circus, weird voltages readings and all that. Pull the terminals off the battery and it reads 12.3ish so a little low but not crazy. Reconnect the terminals and fire it up, im at 15.0+ with a high voltage warning on the DIC now. WTF.
Take the alternator off and run up the local autozone, guy tests it 3x and states it passes/acceptable. I tell him to order me a new alternator. My thought is maybe this is a hit or miss kind of deal with the voltage regulator. New one comes in, slap it on and instantly displays 'Charge System Faults' with a reading of 11.8, so I shut her down and test the voltage at the battery again 12.3ish so i throw the charger on and get it back to 12.7. Reconnect terminals and hit the key, no messages in the DIC and were at 14.8-15.3, take it around the block and no change. A/C, lights whatever you want on and I cant get it to drop or raise much.
I start looking on the forums, see that if you take a wire from the battery terminal on the alternator and connect the positive terminal you can remove the IPC reading within the dash and the dash read out will display the a more accurate reading from the alternator? During this evolution I read 11.8 on DIC during this test and 11.8 without the wire being connected. Remove the wire and the car is now idling, voltage at the terminals reads 11.8, shut the car down with the terminals connected it reads 11.8 and remove the terminals the battery voltage is 12.3, where is the draw???
Take the battery out and place a good battery out of the C4 ZR-1 that is 2 years old and sitting on a trickle charge, throw it in. Car reads 11.8 running at the battery terminals and 11.8 at the DIC, remove terminals and battery is 12.5.
Put the car on the lift and start cleaning the starter solenoid junction, the nut was a little loose and there was some corrosion but nothing crazy or likely. Cleaned the loops up so their cleaner then ever and snug it all down and start the car, 'charge system faults' with a DIC reading of 11.4 volts at idle. Rev the car to 2kish and instantly kicks up to 14.0-14.3 and once back on idle its now sitting at 14.0-14.3. Take it around the block and solid 13.9-14.3 with A/C, lights and various loads on it.
Where am I at with this? Not sure 14.0s are acceptable for a battery that is in good shape. Input appreciated.
Last edited by RiceBurnerZ07; 03-22-2016 at 03:31 PM.
03-22-2016, 04:51 PM
#2
1/4 mile/AutoX
Broken record //// do not install rebuilt alt unless you are positive it's the right one !!!!!!!!!!!!! DO NOT TURN IN YOUR CORE until you know it's working as it should 
03-22-2016, 07:08 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
I don't understand how the units are different, 110 AMP W/O the clutch drive replaced with a 110 AMP W/O clutch drive unit. Your post is useless without any other information, willing to learn but cant with what you posted.
03-22-2016, 07:46 PM
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Pounder is only repeating what I've been trying to point out here for years.
I've posted at least 50 times about why the C5 alternator is so unique. It has a discreet circuit that communicates One on one with the PCM to make sure the alternator is working under the exact parameters that is was designed to monitor. a Discrete circuit is one that makes a non- restricted circuit to the PCM with no interruptions. It reads the generator startup and the switch over to alternator, and then the duty cycle expected to see, if any of the parameters are outside of the "mean " the alternator will throw codes. Its a smart alternator, and not designed to be altered by owners with 1970's ideas about modern automotive circuitry. The C5 was and is very unique it many of its operating systems. No body had Active handling in a production automobile when it was put to paper in the prelaunch design phase, 20 years ago.
Bill aka ET
03-22-2016, 07:49 PM
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04
The C5 had no clutch for three years. Not until field testing reported a Chirp when engaging an A4 transmission into drive, and the clutch was added.
03-22-2016, 08:12 PM
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Thread Starter
Do a search if you are capable... I've been posting about the uniqueness of the C5 alternator/gen for 15 years.
Pounder is only repeating what I've been trying to point out here for years.
I've posted at least 50 times about why the C5 alternator is so unique. It has a discreet circuit that communicates One on one with the PCM to make sure the alternator is working under the exact parameters that is was designed to monitor. a Discrete circuit is one that makes a non- restricted circuit to the PCM with no interruptions. It reads the generator startup and the switch over to alternator, and then the duty cycle expected to see, if any of the parameters are outside of the "mean " the alternator will throw codes. Its a smart alternator, and not designed to be altered by owners with 1970's ideas about modern automotive circuitry. The C5 was and is very unique it many of its operating systems. No body had Active handling in a production automobile when it was put to paper in the prelaunch design phase, 20 years ago.
Bill aka ET
Pounder is only repeating what I've been trying to point out here for years.
I've posted at least 50 times about why the C5 alternator is so unique. It has a discreet circuit that communicates One on one with the PCM to make sure the alternator is working under the exact parameters that is was designed to monitor. a Discrete circuit is one that makes a non- restricted circuit to the PCM with no interruptions. It reads the generator startup and the switch over to alternator, and then the duty cycle expected to see, if any of the parameters are outside of the "mean " the alternator will throw codes. Its a smart alternator, and not designed to be altered by owners with 1970's ideas about modern automotive circuitry. The C5 was and is very unique it many of its operating systems. No body had Active handling in a production automobile when it was put to paper in the prelaunch design phase, 20 years ago.
Bill aka ET
Where I stand now, I have driven the car a total of 20+ miles with two start ups with this new alternator and have had no DIC messages or lights on the cluster. But running at 14.4V consistently.
I apologize that I have started another thread about the same damn problem, but chances are there will be another one from another owner in a week or so.
Last edited by RiceBurnerZ07; 03-22-2016 at 08:17 PM.
03-22-2016, 08:24 PM
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04
For most people working at an auto parts store, it is one step above McDonald's. Magically many people become automotive experts the day they receive their auto parts uniform.
Ive had a lot of fun over the years asking questions of some of these people... Not that all are clueless, some are very friendly and willing to go the extra mile, but I can almost guarantee that no auto parts counter help could explain what a discrete circuit actually is and how it applies to a C5... In fact every auto parts store used the same cross reference chart, as long as it bolts up, and put out the right amperage, it will work.. which is far from the case.
Ive had a lot of fun over the years asking questions of some of these people... Not that all are clueless, some are very friendly and willing to go the extra mile, but I can almost guarantee that no auto parts counter help could explain what a discrete circuit actually is and how it applies to a C5... In fact every auto parts store used the same cross reference chart, as long as it bolts up, and put out the right amperage, it will work.. which is far from the case.
03-22-2016, 08:48 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
For most people working at an auto parts store, it is one step above McDonald's. Magically many people become automotive experts the day they receive their auto parts uniform.
Ive had a lot of fun over the years asking questions of some of these people... Not that all are clueless, some are very friendly and willing to go the extra mile, but I can almost guarantee that no auto parts counter help could explain what a discrete circuit actually is and how it applies to a C5... In fact every auto parts store used the same cross reference chart, as long as it bolts up, and put out the right amperage, it will work.. which is far from the case.
Ive had a lot of fun over the years asking questions of some of these people... Not that all are clueless, some are very friendly and willing to go the extra mile, but I can almost guarantee that no auto parts counter help could explain what a discrete circuit actually is and how it applies to a C5... In fact every auto parts store used the same cross reference chart, as long as it bolts up, and put out the right amperage, it will work.. which is far from the case.
So what I've read in the last hour, mostly stuff you've posted on other threads states that there are two different alternators basically that could fit on the car but there is only one correct one that is capable of communicating with the PCM?
My main question/concern: The remanuf. one I so easily picked up from the store is not a Valeo, from what I see. Looks exactly alike and everything but no branding that is visible. I haven't had any lights or DIC messages with it. Upon the first start up after cleaning the starter solenoid DIC displayed 11.8V at idle. Gave it a Rev to 2k and instantly the DIC is 14.2 and steady. I then let the car sit, thinking my work was completed. Hours later I hop in and drive a 20 mile round trip with 2 starts and never have any lights or DIC messages and 13.7-14.2V on DIC. I under the DIC is not the actually battery voltage but for this purpose I believe it indicates where I stand?
Last edited by RiceBurnerZ07; 03-22-2016 at 08:55 PM.