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I'm in the process of installing one on my C5. Bought the complete kit, with the HD endlinks. Just some important points on the C5 Corvette sway bar kit that are bugging me, and you folks should know about.
- The supplied M12x50 bolts are too short. M12x60 are the right length, otherwise the Nyloks do not engage at all due to the thickness of the aluminium tang on the lower A arms. 60mm will get you the desired 2 to 3 threads past the nut.
- The supplied endlink spacers are not the right inner dimension, and are meant for Imperial size application. I measured 13.3mm on the ones I got, and they deform over the spherical part of the endlink ball waaaaayyy before I can get to the 53 ft/lbs of torque required for this fastener. Not being tight enough means with time, the spacers will deform further, causing damage to the endlink, and possibly the holes on the sway bar and/or A arm tang. Also, they seem to be made of a very mild steel, which in this case, isn't very desirable.
- Not enough flat washers supplied, only one per endlink bolt. There should be two, one on the outside of the aluminium A arm tang for the bolt head, and one on the inside of the tang for the spacer to sit against. The inside one is VERY important, since it will prevent the spacer from digging into the aluminium. Here again, the washers supplied are Imperial, and are a bit too loose on the M12 bolts, but where the bolt head or correctly sized spacers are concerned, are fine.
So, if you're using one, and used the supplied hardware, I would take a really good look at the aluminium tang on the A arm. Inspect for damage to the aluminium on the inside, where the spacer sits, and damage/deformation to the spacer itself. Check for loose bolts, and damage to the holes as well.
The ideal dimensions for the spacers should be;
- 12mm ID
- 16mm OD
- 6mm Length
This will provide the proper ID to sit on the face of the spherical, and enough wall thickness to prevent deformation when torqued. I'm in contact with a supplier right now on pricing for stainless steel spacers.
Also think about getting some 12mm flat washers. 12mm DIN washers are 2.5mm thick, so use these on the outside of the tang. That will give maximum support to the bolt heads, while the supplied thinner washers on the inside (next to the endlink spacer) will protect the aluminium, and minimize any added offset to the endlink.
I've sent a message to Steinjager with my observations.
I'm sure that is good feedback to the manufacturer. Hopefully they will look into it.
I may have found a fairly inexpensive solution to the spacer problem. My research has revealed that these might be a perfect solution;
They're called "misalignment spacers". They come in Imperial as well as metric dimensions. I've ordered some, they're about $1 each. In this application, the 12mm ones have the following dimensions (the dimensional sketch on the left, CSP M12);
Looking at the stated dimensions, and the way the endlinks sit on my car, they should be perfect. The added advantage here is the much larger base of the spacer, which eliminates the need for a washer if so desired. The thickness of the spacer, and the angle of the cone looks adequate enough to allow for axial offset.
The small end of the cone looks to be dimensional right to sit flush against the face of the spherical.
I've ordered a bunch, and will report back with the results. If they work out, I'll post some pictures of the assembled endlink.
I used the stock solid ones instead of the ones from the kit. I guess I saved myself some aggravation. I do like them, It solved some of my stability issues but then again the stock endlinks I had were all shot.
I'm in the process of installing one on my C5. Bought the complete kit, with the HD endlinks. Just some important points on the C5 Corvette sway bar kit that are bugging me, and you folks should know about.
- The supplied M12x50 bolts are too short. M12x60 are the right length, otherwise the Nyloks do not engage at all due to the thickness of the aluminium tang on the lower A arms. 60mm will get you the desired 2 to 3 threads past the nut.
- The supplied endlink spacers are not the right inner dimension, and are meant for Imperial size application. I measured 13.3mm on the ones I got, and they deform over the spherical part of the endlink ball waaaaayyy before I can get to the 53 ft/lbs of torque required for this fastener. Not being tight enough means with time, the spacers will deform further, causing damage to the endlink, and possibly the holes on the sway bar and/or A arm tang. Also, they seem to be made of a very mild steel, which in this case, isn't very desirable.
- Not enough flat washers supplied, only one per endlink bolt. There should be two, one on the outside of the aluminium A arm tang for the bolt head, and one on the inside of the tang for the spacer to sit against. The inside one is VERY important, since it will prevent the spacer from digging into the aluminium. Here again, the washers supplied are Imperial, and are a bit too loose on the M12 bolts, but where the bolt head or correctly sized spacers are concerned, are fine.
So, if you're using one, and used the supplied hardware, I would take a really good look at the aluminium tang on the A arm. Inspect for damage to the aluminium on the inside, where the spacer sits, and damage/deformation to the spacer itself. Check for loose bolts, and damage to the holes as well.
The ideal dimensions for the spacers should be;
- 12mm ID
- 16mm OD
- 6mm Length
This will provide the proper ID to sit on the face of the spherical, and enough wall thickness to prevent deformation when torqued. I'm in contact with a supplier right now on pricing for stainless steel spacers.
Also think about getting some 12mm flat washers. 12mm DIN washers are 2.5mm thick, so use these on the outside of the tang. That will give maximum support to the bolt heads, while the supplied thinner washers on the inside (next to the endlink spacer) will protect the aluminium, and minimize any added offset to the endlink.
I've sent a message to Steinjager with my observations.
but are these that superior to the Z51 bars and others available from Cultrag? I guess I am wondering why use these as compared to the great result I got from the Cultrag supplied bars. Not a flame, just curious.
Dave
but are these that superior to the Z51 bars and others available from Cultrag? I guess I am wondering why use these as compared to the great result I got from the Cultrag supplied bars. Not a flame, just curious.
Dave
No idea. I decided to go with the Steinjager kit because there was favorable feedback here on the forum, and the price was right for me. From what I've read, Cultrag provides a quality product.
Yes... I could always go with the stock links, mine are still fine, but since the adjustable ones are already included in the kit, I figured "What the heck?". The only reason I'm posting this is that the supplied hardware leaves a bit to be desired.
As for the Steinjager bars themselves, the dimensions I've taken are;
Front:
32mm OD/3mm Thickness
Rear:
26mm OD/3mm Thickness
As such, they seem to slip in between the C5-Z51 and Z06 sway bars.
Superior? That will always be subjective, but for the price, anything is better than the FE1 base kit. I've already put in a set of Z51 springs, and C6-Z51 shocks in, so there was no way I was going to leave the base bars in there.
No idea. I decided to go with the Steinjager kit because there was favorable feedback here on the forum, and the price was right for me. From what I've read, Cultrag provides a quality product.
Yes... I could always go with the stock links, mine are still fine, but since the adjustable ones are already included in the kit, I figured "What the heck?". The only reason I'm posting this is that the supplied hardware leaves a bit to be desired.
As for the Steinjager bars themselves, the dimensions I've taken are;
Front:
32mm OD/3mm Thickness
Rear:
26mm OD/3mm Thickness
As such, they seem to slip in between the C5-Z51 and Z06 sway bars.
Superior? That will always be subjective, but for the price, anything is better than the FE1 base kit. I've already put in a set of Z51 springs, and C6-Z51 shocks in, so there was no way I was going to leave the base bars in there.
The Cultrag bars alone made a noticeable difference and for the way I drive are enough, but you have a nice package the way you have done it. Should be like being on rails. The Conti tires on mine really enhance cornering to a point where at my age, I would be afraid of more cornering power. The river is too close to the road!!
Dave
I may have found a fairly inexpensive solution to the spacer problem. My research has revealed that these might be a perfect solution;
They're called "misalignment spacers". They come in Imperial as well as metric dimensions. I've ordered some, they're about $1 each. In this application, the 12mm ones have the following dimensions (the dimensional sketch on the left, CSP M12);
Looking at the stated dimensions, and the way the endlinks sit on my car, they should be perfect. The added advantage here is the much larger base of the spacer, which eliminates the need for a washer if so desired. The thickness of the spacer, and the angle of the cone looks adequate enough to allow for axial offset.
The small end of the cone looks to be dimensional right to sit flush against the face of the spherical.
I've ordered a bunch, and will report back with the results. If they work out, I'll post some pictures of the assembled endlink.
Look forward to see pictures and how your solution will work out. I have the same end link kit but not yet installed.
The new spacers have come in, so I threw a pair on. They're just what the doctor ordered. Here's a picture of the new spacer next to the ones that came in the Steinjager kit;
As you can see, much beefier, not to mention that you can delete washers due to the wide base. The inner diameter is also tighter, which means a better fit on the bolt, and it matches up to the flat on the spherical perfectly.
Here's a picture of one end of an endlink cinched up to torque. Torqued up to manufacturers spec's just fine, no deformation at all. (Note; I only torqued the upper bolt for the picture, since I'm still doing some work here.);
The new spacers are 0.5mm thinner, but the cone angle is steep enough to provide adequate clearance on either side of the endlink, so some offset can easily be accommodated. The flat on top of the cone meets up with the flat on the ball perfectly, and is wide enough that no deformation is possible.
Considering that there may be slight variations in bar angles, and/or lower arms, the 12mm x 60 bolts will also offer the advantage of being able to shim the endlink for better alignment (or if binding) if necessary.
After some experimentation, I found that the best spacers for the adjustable end links are these;
The 1/2" size fit quite nicely, and they are a bit longer than the conical ones that I proposed before. The length is actually perfect, and set the link alignment between the sway bar and the arm the best. They will however require a washer between it and the aluminium of the lower arm to spread out any lateral forces, and protect the aluminium.
As a bonus, they fit nicely with these;
The bushings fit nice and snug in the holes, and overall, will go a long way to keeping dirt out of the spherical bushings. They're a bit of a pain to install on the rod end, but worth every minute, and every penny. I still went with the 12mm x 60 bolts, although the they're a bit thin for the minimum required exposed threads on the arm side. 65mm or 70mm would be best here, but I added Loctite to help reinforce the Nylok, so I'm not worried about it. Here is a look at the finished product installed;
Since the boot was a tad loose on the threaded side, a small tye-wrap takes care of sealing up gap. You could also use a dap of non-hardening Loctite sealant between the boot and the threads, and then tye-wrap it to ensure that moisture doesn't get in.
Both the bushings and the boots are available from JJC Race and Rally.com.
A word of warning... they're NOT CHEAP! The boots and bushings combined will run about $100 + shipping, but, like I always say, do it right... do it once.
They've been sitting in an unopened box in my garage for over a year But I plan to put them on shortly and wondering if I need to be concerned about this spacer business. I attached a few pics - and the inner (circular) part of the link protrudes about 1/16in outside of the "carrier." Also the kit comes with a spacer (about 1/2in) on one side. Would smaller spacers on both sides be a better plan? The bolt itself is 2-1/8in. Regardless - the rubber boot looks to be a good idea - the threaded end of the link looks to be 1/2in so I guess I can go with your recommendation
They've been sitting in an unopened box in my garage for over a year But I plan to put them on shortly and wondering if I need to be concerned about this spacer business. I attached a few pics - and the inner (circular) part of the link protrudes about 1/16in outside of the "carrier." Also the kit comes with a spacer (about 1/2in) on one side. Would smaller spacers on both sides be a better plan? The bolt itself is 2-1/8in. Regardless - the rubber boot looks to be a good idea - the threaded end of the link looks to be 1/2in so I guess I can go with your recommendation
I would swap the spacer and the washer. In your configuration, when you tighten down the nut, the washer will bind on the end link housing. That being said, I would get a second washer to go between the spacer and the nut too.
In the end the non-threaded portion of the bolt would be inside the end link "swivel sleeve".
From my experience, you'll need a spacer on both sides for two reasons;
1) Depending on how your bar sits, it's almost certain that you'll end up with the head of the spherical rubbing somewhere. Having a bushing on both sides not only avoids any possible conflicts, but also allows the spherical a greater degree of freedom in all axis. Worse case scenario is bending the link as you tighten the bolt if it binds up.
2) If you wish to use the rubber boots, bushings on either side will act as the proper sleeves for the bolt axis of the boot.
For more pictures of how I installed my links, you can see them here in this gallery; https://imgur.com/a/Jc5Ls
You'll notice that there's a fair bit of offset absorbed by the link, but with spacers on both sides of the spherical, there's plenty of room for more misalignment.
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Important Steinjager sway bar points...
But I plan to put them on shortly and wondering if I need to be concerned about this spacer business. I attached a few pics - and the inner (circular) part of the link protrudes about 1/16in outside of the "carrier." Also the kit comes with a spacer (about 1/2in) on one side. Would smaller spacers on both sides be a better plan? The bolt itself is 2-1/8in. Regardless - the rubber boot looks to be a good idea - the threaded end of the link looks to be 1/2in so I guess I can go with your recommendation 