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Big thanks to Mike (Moto one) who gave me the Torque tube. Which came in today, I'm surprised for how well the bearings turn considering the car it came out of had 150k miles.
This is why the PO changed it out, which isn't a problem in my case since I would change it no matter what to the C6 shaft to use the better designed pilot bearing.
Tore into the tube to find what seems like new bearings and guibos, no wonder it turns so nice, looks like all I'll need is a new pilot shaft, bearing, slinger and the aluminum couplers. I have a hard time believing these cost $130. Gonna stop by my buddies machine shop and see if he can't make them cheaper.
Also made sure to engrave the parts so I can assemble them in the proper location again.
keep in mind the 3 shafts that make up the torque tube are balanced as an assembly. if you use a different pilot shaft, you will need to get the assembly rebalanced or you risk getting drivetrain vibrations.
keep in mind the 3 shafts that make up the torque tube are balanced as an assembly. if you use a different pilot shaft, you will need to get the assembly rebalanced or you risk getting drivetrain vibrations.
I see no indication they are balanced as an assembly only that the driveshaft itself is balanced but that is why I engraved the parts, so upon reassembly it requires less work to balanced.
My rotating assembly was zero balanced to within 1.5 gram. So I'll zero balance each part to the same spec so they can be changed easier down the road if needed, this will include the clutch and flywheel.
This is going to be a nice build when it comes together.
Really well rounded.
It's good to see a mechanic that has the contacts and understands the engineering enough to put the money in the right places. There is an art to that. You have to have vision.
This is going to be a nice build when it comes together.
Really well rounded.
It's good to see a mechanic that has the contacts and understands the engineering enough to put the money in the right places. There is an art to that. You have to have vision.
Break enough **** and the learning curve comes quick.
So I decided to keep the rubber bushings for now since they're in perfect shape, They'll probably wear at the same speed as the clutch. This saves me some coin right now.
However JHR Performance has the 12mm Billet spacers for $50 each, which is what they should cost. $130 for those is ******* stupid.
Boring updates, getting bearings and seals for the diff, torque tube and what not. This is the boring part of the build before everything comes together, the holidays will probably put this on hold unless I can dump most of my previous builds left overs.
RPM even advised against that.
Something has to give in the drive-line!
Do you how end-play works?
That set up will save the drive-line but **** up every thing else up in its path.
The crank to the trans cant be one solid unit.
Something has to give
When the the engine is up to temps, it pushes the the thrust bearing in the engine.
I don't get the solid torque tube idea. Something more expensive is going to **** up.
The torque tube couplings is where you have a place to save your hard work (expensive engine and trans).
Do it nice or do it twice.
The crank to the trans cant be one solid unit.
Something has to give.
Eve when you adjust the front coupling on the Auto. You do it when the engine is up to temps. Other wise, it pushes the the thrust bearing in the engine.
I don't get the solid torque tube idea. Something more expensive is going to **** up.
The torque tube couplings is where you have a place to save your hard work (expensive engine and trans).
Do it nice or do it twice.
You must have missed a few things in shop class. Or someone at RPM sold you a load of bullshit.
The TT, or any driveshaft is not a positive mount. The pilot shaft slides in and out of the clutch splines, even IF it pushed the pilot bearing in, it would press the oil galley plug in the crank out, would still have no affect on the end play of the crank. Second, you have two slip locations, the first is at the mating to the transmission, the second is at the clutch, both would absolutely prevent the pilot depth from changing, the front and rear bellhousing would make it impossible. Those would have to break for your theory to even be possible.
The ONLY potential downside would be vertical load wear from a possible difference in the driveline angle, which would **** up the TT bearings, it would have zero affect on the crank.
It wouldn't be a problem as long as proper driveline assembly is followed and the pinion angle is checked with an angle gauge, get it less than 2* off and the solid couplers work just fine. They will just transmit power more effectively, which will put load on the next weakest part. Which would be the main shaft, that will be beefed up, next would be the diff case, that gets a brace, then the LSD and input shafts which are going to be 300m, so the last thing would be the half shaft and tires, which is the best spot to have a driveline failure, since they're easy to change.
You're also forgetting the bushings have bolt collars, so the dept load is already fixed, aluminum or rubber doesn't make a difference, putting pressure on the shaft like a punch, it's already a "fixed" piece.
Lastly I just stated I'm keeping the rubber ones for now, but I will run double aluminum when the need for replacement happens.
Aside from shop class I used to laser align electric motors in industry. Part of the game was predictive maintenance. We would use vibration analysis to accurately predict when a bearing would fail on a down day rather than a production day. There is big money in that.
In industry if a big fan has too much vibration it will literally shake apart and do serious damage.
Aside from shop class I used to laser align electric motors in industry. Part of the game was predictive maintenance. We would use vibration analysis to accurately predict when a bearing would fail on a down day rather than a production day. There is bug money in that.
Ok, that's well and good and all but that still makes no sense to your comment on the billet couplers. Vibrations might just kill the bearings in the TT, but still, nothing in the driveline is going to have any affect on the end play of the crank.
You do know that a rubber or solid coupler won't stop torsional vibrations right? That comes down the the balance precision of the assembly. The rubber is there strictly to soften the torsional load applied to the TT and transmission assembly. GM knew the driveline couldn't handle the power, so they slowed the clutch movements down and made it so the power couldn't be transmitted as effectively.
I am all for making things stronger.
I think it is a bad idea to put any unusual outside stress on the crank-shaft.
The only give in the C5 drive-line is the couplings. There needs to be something soft in there if anything is going to last.
Originally Posted by Rob 02
If you take out the play on any thrust bearing then you will have glitter in the oil pan.
Ok, seriously I've explained how that IS NOT POSSIBLE. The couplers provide "give" for TORSIONAL load, they have ZERO affect on the fore/aft movement of the driveshaft. You absolutely cannot **** up the crank end play that way, you could possibly **** up the pilot bearing, but that still would have zero affect on end play. It would break from angular load changes, not from shaft depth changes.
In either setup the drive shaft DOES NOT HAVE FORWARD OR REARWARD MOVEMENT, the bearing housing on the pre 01 is bolted in place and 01+ the bearings are pressed in place, it's not moving anyway but circular. The rubber couplers have steel tubes in them, they aren't compressing under load any more or less than the billet ones.
11-14-2017, 11:56 PM
