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putting headers in - help? (speed engineering install)
Working on my C5 tonight, I have some speed engineering headers Im putting in.
Ive got as far as getting all the old exhaust out, but Im having some issues getting the new headers in.
Ive removed coil packs, steering shaft out of the way, removed the ais (or whatever its called, the emissions thingy and pipework) but dont seem to be able to feed the headers in and Im hesitant to be rough.
Ive seen videos of other brands being installed and seems like sometimes people also remove valve covers, and the starter - which I think is low down on the passenger side?? - do I need to remove these to get everything in?
I have the 1-7/8 speed engineering headers as well. I did not have to remove the valve covers, alternator, steering shaft or coil packs. After removing my old exhaust, I simply fed both headers in from underneath with no issue at all. The only stuff I had to remove was the spark plugs and starter. I also permanently deleted the AIR system. You’ll need at least 10” of clearance under the car to be able to do this. The more the better.
Installing them from above is significantly more difficult and will require removing a bunch of unnecessary things. To be honest, I’m not sure you can even do it, but I suppose if you remove enough stuff you could get away with it. You’re definitely better off installing from under the car.
I did actually have a go at feeding the drivers side up from the bottom but I might not have the car at 10 inches high, I might go check (metric country here so Ill measure and try to convert!!).Ive juuust enough room to slide under the car on a creeper.
I hadnt even thought of removing the plugs, so that might be a tip worth looking at - did you remove the plugs because you were replacing them, or because they were int he way?
Im keen as to try and get them all installed tomorrow and running so I can take my little girl out in it again!
If you’re just barely able to get underneath on a creeper, I’d say it’s not quite high enough. You might be able to work it out, but it certainly would be easier if the car was higher. Probably another 15-20cm higher. (You’re welcome for using metric )
I removed the plugs because they were in the way (sort of). I could have installed the headers with them in, but keep in mind that they are delicate. If you hit them with the header too hard, you may crack the porcelain. If that happens, they will look okay at first glance, but you’ll have a misfire when you start the car and wonder why. It’s also a great opportunity to swap them out with fresh ones anyway.
height as per attached photo, so more than 10 inches off the ground. I havent tried the passenger side again yet (its currently after 10pm and Im about a bottle and a half of wine down so not ideal to go tinkering on the car again till morning)
So looks like high enough.
drivers side, she aint going in.
it either contacts badly around the oil filter, or gets caught up on the upper alternator mount (alternator also removed - I forgot to mention that I think)
Interesting, it sounds like you’ve got everything in order to get them installed then (besides removing spark plugs). My recommendation is try again from underneath. It’s all about finding that magic angle/position to get them to slide in. Trust me, they’ll go in! Don’t be afraid to be a little rough, you’re not gonna hurt the headers.
Definitely sober up before tackling the job. You’ve gotta be in one piece to take the your little girl for a spin! Best of luck with the install, you’ll figure it out
Yup you may need some one top to help guide into place and you are feeding it from the bottom. Remove the plugs as you don't want to accidentally smack and break one or crack one. Cracked ones you will not notice and now have miss fires or no starts.
So, Ive been at it again, and after removing the starter, I got both headers in, but...
Now Im sure sure what happens with the sensors - theres one that go into each of the stock headers, and the speed eng headers have a hole in the right place for those.
theres also a link pipe between the headers and the X pipe, and ONE of these link pipes has a fitting for a sensor of some type (but only one)
The Stock H pipe had two more sensors about half way down the car.
so basically stock system had 4 sensors, and 4 places to put them.
Speed eng system has places for only 3 sensors. so I am confused as to what sensors go where, and do some get deleted, or???
Front 2 sensors are the critical ones for the PCM to read/control fuel trims and make your car run properly. The rear 2 are deleted with the speed engineering system and are not required for your car to run properly. Those are to monitor the condition/temp of the catalytic converters, which you don’t have anymore. You’ll have a check engine light as a result of the rear 2 sensors being removed, but that can be removed with a mail order tune, or actual dyno tune. The 3rd bung on the headers is for a wide band gauge sensor. You don’t NEED to use it. If you’re not installing a wideband, you can simply leave the threaded plug installed.
So bare minimum, you need to install the front 2 sensors as you mentioned. Everything beyond that isn’t necessary.
Front 2 sensors are the critical ones for the PCM to read/control fuel trims and make your car run properly. The rear 2 are deleted with the speed engineering system and are not required for your car to run properly. Those are to monitor the condition/temp of the catalytic converters, which you don’t have anymore. You’ll have a check engine light as a result of the rear 2 sensors being removed, but that can be removed with a mail order tune, or actual dyno tune. The 3rd bung on the headers is for a wide band gauge sensor. You don’t NEED to use it. If you’re not installing a wideband, you can simply leave the threaded plug installed.
So bare minimum, you need to install the front 2 sensors as you mentioned. Everything beyond that isn’t necessary.
ah thank you! do I remove the cables for the rear ones completely then? or just zip tie them up?
I was looking back at your thread and I guess you must be using a wide band? - so I got even more confused by that!
Sorry my thread confused you! But yes, you can leave the harnesses installed if they aren’t in the way. Just zip tie the connectors onto the frame rail or something in the vicinity. I suppose you could remove them completely if you don’t plan to ever install rear 02 sensors/cats again. I kept mine “just in case”.
Last edited by wscott62893; Jun 7, 2019 at 08:59 PM.
well I got everything in and do have a couple issues.
When I start the car up, the temp gauge immediately goes to the hottest end, like, within ten seconds of the car running. It cant be actually running that hot so Im assuming Ive missed a plug somewhere, but Ive checked and I dont think I have.
There is one plug sort of just below the alternator that doesnt seem to go anywhere. I dont remember undoing it though, so Im not sure if that matters for something?
any other things I should look at as to why the cra seems to immediately think its running so hot?
Theres also a CEL on, which I assume is because I removed the rear exhaust sensors.
DO I need to do anything regarding the AIS / emissions thing? there was no port on the new headers to install it into, so at the moment the pipes for it are just sitting there, do I need to block anything or unplug anything for this?
I figured out where that wee plug goes, the other half to it is kinda damaged which is why I missed it, so it also doesnt 'click' into place, so Ill figure out some kinda zip tie method to hold it in place.
It did not solve the problem though.
on a hunch I checked the fuses, and found a 20a fuse had blown. replaced that and all was back to normal!
Car now sounds barely louder at idle, but with a wee rev it comes to life.
Looking forward to when the intake and ATAK axle back turns up, hoping it will be here by next week
Nice! The little sensor on the front of the head behind the alternator you’re referring to is the engine coolant temp sensor. I replaced mine while I had everything apart, but it’s not necessary. Sounds like you accidentally hit it with the header when you were trying to get it installed.
For the AIR system, you’ll also have a check engine light that will need to be turned off with a tune. Another thing to add to the list for a tuner to disable when you get it tuned. In the short term, you can unplug the AIR system pump which resides behind the driver side front turn signal/DRL. You can access if from underneath if you remove the panel on the bottom of the bumper just in front of the front wheel. Since the system is useless to you now, I recommend removing all the tubing/piping/pump. It really cleans up the engine bay and will save about 10 pounds once removed. Unplugging the pump will render the system useless.
Once you get the car tuned with the intake, headers, and axleback, it’ll really wake up! I suggest not driving it too long or hard until you get it tuned though. With having changed so much, the engine tune is certainly off quite a bit. It’s always been recommended to get a tune after installing headers.
Last edited by wscott62893; Jun 8, 2019 at 06:33 AM.
putting headers in - help? (speed engineering install)
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