Poor Quality
Pro
Joined: Dec 2018
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From: southern rural MI
quality
AS a Gm engineer I can tell you the C5 is head and shoulders above any c2 or C3... the drive train was primitive and designed to last 60,000 miles.. at least that was the certification standard back then... The C5 LSX motor was certified to 200,000 miles...they also were lucky to get 15 mpg. The C5 gets 28 to 30... Body panels used fiberglass fibers and gel coat. the C2 were loaded with stress cracks, ( because of too much gel coat ) ( 60% gel coat 40 % fibers ) much like peanut brittle ...after a few years... the C3 were better
( 60% fibers 40 % gel... more flexable with less stress cracking) ( but they are poor quality compared to SMC. C5 are seeing 300K and 400 K miles… there is even one with the original unmolested engine at the museum with 775,000
Dave put a larger percentage of the budget into the revolutionary. Drive train... the plastic parts are all less than 1:1 specific gravity.. meaning they are light enough to float... in a specific gravity test panel...Hydroformed Chassis,,400% stronger than a C4... No more open the doors to lift the car. there is so much flex in a C2 and C3, the bodies did not survive the flex. bodies were seamed together... Lots of LSX motors being built to 700 and 800 Hp without issue... there is nothing better about a C2 or C3 when it comes to design. If all the plastic was metal you could not afford the car. and it would not pass the gas guzzler tax which was a primary motivator in designing the C5. Make it lighter and make it with in budget were the two daily design stimulators, by Dave Hill. A C3 is like an 8 track tape player, compared to C5 where streaming audio and video.is the norm.
Just insight from and insider to Corvette design...
Bill
( 60% fibers 40 % gel... more flexable with less stress cracking) ( but they are poor quality compared to SMC. C5 are seeing 300K and 400 K miles… there is even one with the original unmolested engine at the museum with 775,000
Dave put a larger percentage of the budget into the revolutionary. Drive train... the plastic parts are all less than 1:1 specific gravity.. meaning they are light enough to float... in a specific gravity test panel...Hydroformed Chassis,,400% stronger than a C4... No more open the doors to lift the car. there is so much flex in a C2 and C3, the bodies did not survive the flex. bodies were seamed together... Lots of LSX motors being built to 700 and 800 Hp without issue... there is nothing better about a C2 or C3 when it comes to design. If all the plastic was metal you could not afford the car. and it would not pass the gas guzzler tax which was a primary motivator in designing the C5. Make it lighter and make it with in budget were the two daily design stimulators, by Dave Hill. A C3 is like an 8 track tape player, compared to C5 where streaming audio and video.is the norm.
Just insight from and insider to Corvette design...
Bill
Drifting
Joined: May 2006
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.....
.....We had Corvettes ranging from 1959 to 1992...They all had issues, but we caused many of them by Drag Racing..Auto Cross...and just plain beating the heck out of them...So what ....that's what we did back then.
We fixed them and moved on. That's what you should do today.
What really upsets me are the new vehicles that seem to have very expensive problems that most of the current owners don't evenknow about.
We purchased a new Rav 4 in 2013 and it drank oil like a locomotive...took it back to the dealer and they claimed they knew nothing about it.
After much digging I found that Toyota outsourced the engines that year and they were all using oil. We dumped that one.
Then we purchased a new 2016 GMC Terrain and rec'd a notice recently of a class action law suit that was placed as the Terrain motors are using excessive amounts of oil. Well that left our stables 2 years ago.
Recently....when Ford was dumping the 2018-2020 Ford F150's I became interested in buying one.
Once I started searching for issues on them I found that the V-8 equipped trucks are also having an oil issue to the point that Ford is in some cases replacing the entire engine.
Who the heck can you trust in today's world with all the ads stating they have the greatest cars on the road ??
Here's another rip off...a buddy of mine's wife took her BMW in for service...new cabin air filter $225.00 total cost....$25.00 part plus 2 hours labor....15 minute job. WTF ....
So if your Corvette emblems crack...Thank God thats all ya have to deal with !!!!
.....We had Corvettes ranging from 1959 to 1992...They all had issues, but we caused many of them by Drag Racing..Auto Cross...and just plain beating the heck out of them...So what ....that's what we did back then.
We fixed them and moved on. That's what you should do today.
What really upsets me are the new vehicles that seem to have very expensive problems that most of the current owners don't evenknow about.
We purchased a new Rav 4 in 2013 and it drank oil like a locomotive...took it back to the dealer and they claimed they knew nothing about it.
After much digging I found that Toyota outsourced the engines that year and they were all using oil. We dumped that one.
Then we purchased a new 2016 GMC Terrain and rec'd a notice recently of a class action law suit that was placed as the Terrain motors are using excessive amounts of oil. Well that left our stables 2 years ago.
Recently....when Ford was dumping the 2018-2020 Ford F150's I became interested in buying one.
Once I started searching for issues on them I found that the V-8 equipped trucks are also having an oil issue to the point that Ford is in some cases replacing the entire engine.
Who the heck can you trust in today's world with all the ads stating they have the greatest cars on the road ??
Here's another rip off...a buddy of mine's wife took her BMW in for service...new cabin air filter $225.00 total cost....$25.00 part plus 2 hours labor....15 minute job. WTF ....
So if your Corvette emblems crack...Thank God thats all ya have to deal with !!!!
Last edited by bgprisms; Jan 31, 2020 at 03:15 PM.
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Drove mine to work the last 2 days because I had errands to run. Walking across a parking lot toward it, I marvel at how mean it looks.
Well, I may not be sold on the C7 exterior... But if you think they're not twice as nice as a C5, I've got news for ya.
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I have a 20 year old rear emblem that looks new.
I always wax it with the car. And the car is waxed often.
Save the Emblem!
I always wax it with the car. And the car is waxed often.
Save the Emblem!
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Yes, there are some quality issues with parts on the C5, but it was still a huge leap forward over previous generations. And remember, a 2004 C5 is 16 years old. Low mileage or not, time is a factor when it comes to some of the parts. If the number of problems get to be a real PITA, maybe it is time to move to another Corvette or to a car that has a reputation for higher quality.
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.....
.....We had Corvettes ranging from 1959 to 1992...They all had issues, but we caused many of them by Drag Racing..Auto Cross...and just plain beating the heck out of them...So what ....that's what we did back then.
We fixed them and moved on. That's what you should do today.
What really upsets me are the new vehicles that seem to have very expensive problems that most of the current owners don't evenknow about.
We purchased a new Rav 4 in 2013 and it drank oil like a locomotive...took it back to the dealer and they claimed they knew nothing about it.
After much digging I found that Toyota outsourced the engines that year and they were all using oil. We dumped that one.
Then we purchased a new 2016 GMC Terrain and rec'd a notice recently of a class action law suit that was placed as the Terrain motors are using excessive amounts of oil. Well that left our stables 2 years ago.
Recently....when Ford was dumping the 2018-2020 Ford F150's I became interested in buying one.
Once I started searching for issues on them I found that the V-8 equipped trucks are also having an oil issue to the point that Ford is in some cases replacing the entire engine.
Who the heck can you trust in today's world with all the ads stating they have the greatest cars on the road ??
Here's another rip off...a buddy of mine's wife took her BMW in for service...new cabin air filter $225.00 total cost....$25.00 part plus 2 hours labor....15 minute job. WTF ....
So if your Corvette emblems crack...Thank God thats all ya have to deal with !!!!
.....We had Corvettes ranging from 1959 to 1992...They all had issues, but we caused many of them by Drag Racing..Auto Cross...and just plain beating the heck out of them...So what ....that's what we did back then.
We fixed them and moved on. That's what you should do today.
What really upsets me are the new vehicles that seem to have very expensive problems that most of the current owners don't evenknow about.
We purchased a new Rav 4 in 2013 and it drank oil like a locomotive...took it back to the dealer and they claimed they knew nothing about it.
After much digging I found that Toyota outsourced the engines that year and they were all using oil. We dumped that one.
Then we purchased a new 2016 GMC Terrain and rec'd a notice recently of a class action law suit that was placed as the Terrain motors are using excessive amounts of oil. Well that left our stables 2 years ago.
Recently....when Ford was dumping the 2018-2020 Ford F150's I became interested in buying one.
Once I started searching for issues on them I found that the V-8 equipped trucks are also having an oil issue to the point that Ford is in some cases replacing the entire engine.
Who the heck can you trust in today's world with all the ads stating they have the greatest cars on the road ??
Here's another rip off...a buddy of mine's wife took her BMW in for service...new cabin air filter $225.00 total cost....$25.00 part plus 2 hours labor....15 minute job. WTF ....
So if your Corvette emblems crack...Thank God thats all ya have to deal with !!!!
Japenese quality has gone down and the RAV4 used to unbeatable overall, the Japanese cars made 15 to 20 years ago like the best Honda's/ Acura and Toyota/ Lexus I think were overall the best cars ever made and around early to mid 2000's the quality started going down and then after 08 they really dropped off build wise. It's all about servicing your debt you know so we have to rip each other off.....
Last edited by Whipitnow; Jan 31, 2020 at 06:20 PM.
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I doubt very many bought a C5 in 1997 and said "Man I'm glad this thing has a great warranty because I'm going to take it to work every day until it dies"
Burning Brakes
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I bought my first c5 last month, 2001 with 36000 miles. Quality is great, nice and solid every part, I have had so far aver 40 cars all different brands mostly German cars including 2 Ferrari’s,
same year bmw 525 crumbled on me,
as far as compared to your Lexus, no vehicle in the world will ever have Lexus quality ever, that’s Japanese laser cut quality automobile.
dont forgat that corvette c5 maybe have a little cheaper parts ( although I think same era sports cars had even worst quality compared to corvette)
but it has worlds best engine the BEAUTIFUL LS1.
same year bmw 525 crumbled on me,
as far as compared to your Lexus, no vehicle in the world will ever have Lexus quality ever, that’s Japanese laser cut quality automobile.
dont forgat that corvette c5 maybe have a little cheaper parts ( although I think same era sports cars had even worst quality compared to corvette)
but it has worlds best engine the BEAUTIFUL LS1.
Last edited by C7ZO6; Feb 1, 2020 at 09:44 AM.
Burning Brakes
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I am in the car industry, what’s happening in the market is very interesting to see,
today European car quality is bar far the worst, in every aspect, build to last no more than 70k miles.
American car quality is in top shape and climbing,
japanise is holding up but showing quality drop.
my 2018 Tacoma TRD is definitely not the best truck,
lots of cheap parts, absolutely underpowered, 15 mpg at best. It sales because of it’s heritage, will I ever buy another? 100% no,
it takes usually about 15 to 20 years before people change there mind about a brand and we are in transition times now.
im not a ford guy, but go to your local ford dealer and check out Ford Expedition , it will blow your mind with its fit and finish, it puts Range Rover to shame and I am taking about expedition not even new Lincoln with its 32 way adjustable front seats.
today European car quality is bar far the worst, in every aspect, build to last no more than 70k miles.
American car quality is in top shape and climbing,
japanise is holding up but showing quality drop.
my 2018 Tacoma TRD is definitely not the best truck,
lots of cheap parts, absolutely underpowered, 15 mpg at best. It sales because of it’s heritage, will I ever buy another? 100% no,
it takes usually about 15 to 20 years before people change there mind about a brand and we are in transition times now.
im not a ford guy, but go to your local ford dealer and check out Ford Expedition , it will blow your mind with its fit and finish, it puts Range Rover to shame and I am taking about expedition not even new Lincoln with its 32 way adjustable front seats.
Last edited by C7ZO6; Feb 1, 2020 at 09:42 AM.
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This notion of designed in failure is urban legend... they fail at a point because of the budget and time restraints put on engineers to design these parts. All motor designs are indeed certified.. back in the 50's and 60's these bench mark was 60,000 miles.. any old guy can remember the 50's and 60's and the notion you had to sell your car before it had 60,000 miles on it, or it was almost worthless as a trade or for sale... in the 80's and early 90's the motor certification went to 100,000 miles... the C5 LS1 was the first motor in the industry to be benchmark certified to 200,000 miles. mandated by Dave hill, be exempt from t5he gas guzzler tax, and be revolutionary in V8 push rod design.
No one purposely designs a car to fail... Limitations of budget and time are the only limiting factors in any car's parts.
Certainly a Corvette designer could design a Cadillac quality seat have it weight 3X that of the C5 seat, cost 5X as much to manufacture, leaving the C5 to be a boat anchor in weight , and fail the gas guzzler tax costing customers sever thousand dollars at the time, increasing the MSRP. put Cadillac quality, soundproofing, and metal parts in a C would weight 4500 lbs, get 15 mpg and cost 70K...back in 1997.
Just some facts.
Bill
Anyone who says cars are designed to fail know absolutely nothing about car design, or automotive manufacturing technology.
No one purposely designs a car to fail... Limitations of budget and time are the only limiting factors in any car's parts.
Certainly a Corvette designer could design a Cadillac quality seat have it weight 3X that of the C5 seat, cost 5X as much to manufacture, leaving the C5 to be a boat anchor in weight , and fail the gas guzzler tax costing customers sever thousand dollars at the time, increasing the MSRP. put Cadillac quality, soundproofing, and metal parts in a C would weight 4500 lbs, get 15 mpg and cost 70K...back in 1997.
Just some facts.
Bill
Anyone who says cars are designed to fail know absolutely nothing about car design, or automotive manufacturing technology.
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Back I the 50, 60, cars weighed 2 tons plus. My 74 Cadillac Eldorado weighed in a 5000 lbs with a 502 V8 that go 12 miles to the gallon. lots of land yachts with big motors.. they all got 8 to 15 miles a gallon had 30 gallon gas tanks and sometime took two fill ups to go to the sea shore for the day .. but gas was 25 to 30 cents a gallon. Japan saw an opportunity and started a revolution in car design, delivering light weight cars for cheap and getting 25 and 30 miles per gallon.. American manufacturers started to see this Asian Rim take over of a once proud industry.. It took time but American manufacturing started adopting Japanese techniques in design and manufacturing, lowering Cost, decreasing weight and increasing fuel economy.. we owe a lot to Japan for building a fire under the feet of American automotive technology. The one thing we heard daily in designing the C5 was make it lighter, keep it within the budget.
Just some insider stuff
Bill
Just some insider stuff
Bill
Drifting
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It's a shame that cars seem to be going up in weight again. My '02 z06 is 3000 pounts the newer vettes are over 3500. I know theres more stuff in them but i always liked the feel of lighter cars. When i think sport cars i think small and light.
Melting Slicks
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This is true, but consider that the C5 was built in mass quantity and appealed to an enthusiast market. Most cars aren't this way.
I doubt very many bought a C5 in 1997 and said "Man I'm glad this thing has a great warranty because I'm going to take it to work every day until it dies"
I doubt very many bought a C5 in 1997 and said "Man I'm glad this thing has a great warranty because I'm going to take it to work every day until it dies"
And it's been pretty reliable since. Not perfect, but acceptable. Best car for reliability was my wife's Legacy GT (2.5 turbo, 5 speed). We kept it for 12 years and 100k - zero trips to the dealer needed, just a replacement battery and tires. Current family vehicle coming up on 3 years, no issues at all. There really is no excuse in this day and age to build cars that are unreliable - or need significant engineering changes after the first model year. In my work in IT application development, we called products like that "Beta" releases.
Last edited by jackthelad; Feb 1, 2020 at 04:38 PM.
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equip. and left out the rest(radio,power windows/doors,
etc) they could really lighten her up. But, who would
buy such a car. Me and maybe you and who else??
It's the times we live in.
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Let's leave the personal insults out of the thread and play nice. We all have our opinions
My C5 performed and handled light years better than my 81. However the quality of some "plastic" parts was slipping.
My C5 performed and handled light years better than my 81. However the quality of some "plastic" parts was slipping.Last edited by DebRedZR1; Feb 1, 2020 at 04:48 PM.
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Jerry, I noticed you never mentioned the cracked fiberglass or paint cracking....hey how about those lovely rear control arm bearing and bushings, and yeah, those rear diff ears that break, brake calipers that seize up, doubt your C5 will have that problem. All cars have SOME issues at times , The 3 you mentioned had there fair share as well, how about floor heat? Crapy paint in the jambs and over all. Overspray all over and now NCRS and Bloomington Gold want it back that way too, craziness. And to address the weight issues. Get rid of the government mandate safety crap, air bags add weight and cost a ton, then they buy them oversees and have to recall millions. Just teach people to drive sensible on the street.
