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This is very cool! I would be interested in the rear setup brackets if they were truly bolt on and didnt require the knuckle mod. It looks like you could almost keep the factory ears in place with the different clock orientation of the caliper.
Yes it might work without cutting the original mounts as is but the back of the spindle would still need to be made flat. I`ll check if that would work though, I have another knuckle that is untouched.. The brackets needs to go in a little deeper to be perfect for rotor alignment maybe .050 or so..the one thing I have to figure out is that lower bearing bolt. It needs to be pretty low or the ball joint nut will interfere, factory it is counter sunk down there to clear. One thought is too use a spacer in there and thread the bracket and use a double end stud with a nut on the bearing side or maybe thread it and weld it to the bracket side permanent ...its one item that needs to be addressed front and rear.
That is really cool that you have been able to mock that all up on modified C6 (early or late design?) spindles. One question, is the backing plate shown going to be sufficiently strong enough to handle the torque loading generated from the noted massive 390mm Brembo 6-piston caliper setup?
That is really cool that you have been able to mock that all up on modified C6 (early or late design?) spindles. One question, is the backing plate shown going to be sufficiently strong enough to handle the torque loading generated from the noted massive 390mm Brembo 6-piston caliper setup?
They are C6 knuckles but it would not matter if it were a C5 since they I believe are only thicker on the mounting ears...I thought I read that the C6 knuckles also used a different casting process but nonetheless the only failed C5 knuckles I have seen are at the mounts for the caliper. Is 1/4 steel strong enough? It maybe but I`d rather it be a .375 thick bracket but I would have to bury it into the casting more so remove the aluminum add in the steel to keep the total thickness stock ? I think that would be best and stronger but my feeling is for the front with the mount ears being so short that a 1/4 thick bracket would work. Going by what I have seen wilwood do with 1/4 thick aluminum brackets I`d have to say a definite yes it would work with 1/4 thick steel.
I only used that brake set up because it was handy, I have a set of C7 Z51`s I will also mock up with, they use a 2 inch hat depth rotor where these ZL-1`s use a 2.40 hat so that .390 actual difference (10mm) has to either be stand offs or thicker bracket buried into the casting. I guess the goal is to have a reasonable cost brake that has a functioning park brake for the C5 and C6 base cars. So with this set up if it ever comes to fruition would hold
....
2009-15 CTS-V stock rotor w/ center hole opened to 2.78
2016+ CTS-V (same as 6th gen ZL-1`s)
2010-15 Camaro SS w/ stock rotor pilot opened & 2013-15 ZL-1 stock rotor w/ center hole opened to 2.78 Or use Z06 C7 front rotor
2016-current Camaro SS w/ C7 z51 rotor ZL-1 w/ rotor pilots opened, 14.6 1LE with rotor pilot opened
2014-19 C7 Corvette JL9,J55,J56,J57 so all your C7 brakes
2020 C8 JL9 and Z51 (fronts)
XTS and ATS Brembo Cadillac w/ appropriate C7 rotor
This is very cool! I would be interested in the rear setup brackets if they were truly bolt on and didnt require the knuckle mod. It looks like you could almost keep the factory ears in place with the different clock orientation of the caliper.
About half of that upper stock caliper mount would need to be sawed off, the lower would clear as is and could be left in place
IIRC, the revised late design C6 spindles #88965637 and #88965638 were developed originally for the C6 Z06 Z07 and C6 ZR1 cars, but may have been used on all 2009-13 C6 models. They also became the replacement units for all C6 years. I do not believe that they are available new any more.
Today I was able to get some time to try out the samples parts I had cut and modify a spindle to mock up with, it`s doable, there are some small problems to solve still but nothing that would stop this conversion from happening. Like I had mentioned earlier, I found a backing plate that really sparked this off, making a front conversion bracket was pretty simple. Having a solution for the park brake is the key.
Here is the stock C6 knuckle- with the sample bracket Thank you Norcal auto in Rancho Cordova
You now have my attention.
It’s nice to see visual of the geometry and how it all lines up.
No problem, there's no way around not modifying this spindle to take a conversion bracket which is going limit the amount of people willing to commit to it and also increases downtime / cost to do the swap- but it is possible. I`m going to pick up a set of C7 knuckles and see for myself what those will take to fit the C6 / C5 next.
Firstly - grinding or cutting isn't hard to do, provided someone has access to a grinder and a flappy paddle.
Second - most of those interested in the brake conversion are going to be the doer and wrench spinner type who will get it done.
I've already ground mine slightly for the mini mantis kit. And I've already got a fresh set of C6 Z06 brakes ready to go on the car. But who is to say I don't sell those and go with a better Brembo kit before the car comes off the lift soon? Seems very doable.
Does need abuse testing though and I like the hills MC556 (should be MC762, imo) was showing, but I'm old school and prefer the heavier round.
Firstly - grinding or cutting isn't hard to do, provided someone has access to a grinder and a flappy paddle.
Second - most of those interested in the brake conversion are going to be the doer and wrench spinner type who will get it done.
I've already ground mine slightly for the mini mantis kit. And I've already got a fresh set of C6 Z06 brakes ready to go on the car. But who is to say I don't sell those and go with a better Brembo kit before the car comes off the lift soon? Seems very doable.
Does need abuse testing though and I like the hills MC556 (should be MC762, imo) was showing, but I'm old school and prefer the heavier round.
Yes I totally get it...I feel the same way. The one thing I see that might be out of the typical range of the home hobbyist is clearing the back of the spindle flat which requires a mill. Removing the ears and your general clean up with a sander grinder sure. I have a few brackets I`ve done out of .250 and those have been out and about for 10+ years many see the road course some auto cross so I`m pretty confident the thickness is ok, I always go .375 if I can however. With this particular knuckle we have that lower bearing bolt to deal with, it wont tolerate much if any protrusion from the cast surface so it has to be recessed into knuckle, I`ve been looking to see if I can find a reduced wrench size nut for that lower ball joint stud, anything to open that area up some. I`ll finish recessing the bracket into the spindle, the full .250 and see how it looks. As for that lower bracket mount, one thing I`ll throw out there as a possible solution but again treads into the permanent irreversible modifications area- Feedback please:
...and that is either having the bracket cut with a hex shaped hole to accept a M12 bolt head and welding in place then drilling the hub bearing mount hole to pass a M12 stud through enough to use a nut on it to secure the bearing / bracket to the knuckle. I`ve looked at the bearing and a std height nut would be close, a shorter M12 jam nut would fit easier, obviously a stover or all metal lock nut would be ideal. the surface the nut would be on is flat on the stock bearing that I have, not machined but flat at least
Or threading the lower bracket using a double end stud..again welding the stud and bracket as one
The only way I can visualize a standard fastener type down there is going to a 3/8 bracket dropping that in as far as needed and then using a flat head cap screw countersinking it into the steel as far as possible, up to flush at most of course. I do this on one of my other brackets on a 3/8 thick bracket
I cleared .250 worth of the spindle out to sink the bracket in, I dont think that is the answer - but it was a good exercise to explore that possibility. With it sunk in .250 the 2.010 hat set ups need just a .250 stand off to center over the rotor, I fit up a C7 Z51 set up to check rotor / pad alignment which is spot on. That lower bearing mount bolt right at the ball joint nut is proving to be a real bugger.
I started looking at the C7 knuckles...not where I thought it would go but here we are
the rear ones to be exact. The conversion brackets although not dead yet are starting to look less inciting, we do not want to mill the spindle of any base material of course and bolt on is a no go so some work or clearing has to happen but the lower bearing mount is a issue. I thought I had it with the park brake figured out but that lower mount is a problem. It was smart to keep that hub and basically that inclination angle close to the joints but bad for making things fit that should not. While those go back burner for the moment- I picked up a set of rear C7 knuckles and loaded the pics into some cad software, while the the dimension lines like somewhat sketch, they were taken off of direct measurements and transferred to basically pictures so round the small numbers..to the closest common value (i.e. 4.011 = 4.0 inch)- again I played with the dimension lines to get the actual measurements close..pics converted to cad do not measure exact as you would think lol..
The knuckles are fairly close, these pics are misleading somewhat, they are scaled to be the same size so look at the numbers !
the lower ball joints are the same, the uppers are the same, the toe link is out some and its taper diameter is smaller. the C7 does have 1 inch more height, the lower ball joint center location as measured from the hub flange is shorter or closer by about .187 vs the C5 / C6. The C7 bearing location will lower the C5 / C6 by .125, upper ball joint center to hub flange is the same distance.
So we are bringing the lower part of the spindle in by almost 3/16 raising the upper ball joint an inch (18`s minimum) and the toe link is lower by 1/2 inch and further out from center by .75 of an inch...
whats your thoughts? I know there is another thread it was done but not on a corvette, a transplant into a Jeep where you can probably make up differences with some fab work. Opening the toe link taper will get them on, not sure what if any the higher ball joint will make a difference in align ability besides needing a 18 inch wheel at least...the lower ball joint hole on the C7 being .187 closer to the bearing mount is going to create positive camber if that raised ball joint doesn't pull the top of the knuckle in the same amount.on a C6.
