Speed Engineering Headers w/cats??
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 142
From: Green Valley Arizona
Speed Engineering Headers w/cats??
Would like to hear from someone that installed a set of Speed Engineering headers along with the cats they offer or used other cats?
I know....leave the cats off......but need to be able to keep the Corvette resellable as emissions testing is required in my area.
Thanks
I know....leave the cats off......but need to be able to keep the Corvette resellable as emissions testing is required in my area.
Thanks
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 394
From: Virginia
St. Jude Donor '18
I went with Kooks headers and Kooks high flow CCs.
My mechanic told me: "You can pay for quality parts up front, or you can pay me to deal with fitment issues of inferior parts later."
I'm really happy how my setup turned out, 2000 C5 Coupe MN6 now with 500CSHP, HCI, full exhaust and some other tweaks.
My mechanic told me: "You can pay for quality parts up front, or you can pay me to deal with fitment issues of inferior parts later."
I'm really happy how my setup turned out, 2000 C5 Coupe MN6 now with 500CSHP, HCI, full exhaust and some other tweaks.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 897
Likes: 987
From: NW Burbs of Chi-Town
2025 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Evil Jake and Mr Black have or had cats on their cars with SE headers. I seem to remember Evil Jake saying the cats cost him about 10rwhp if that matters to you. I'm sure any good exhaust shop can install them if you call around and don't want to install yourself. SE headers fit like a glove. Easy install in an afternoon with a buddy... 14,000 miles (and climbing) on the SE headers with no problems on my 98'.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 142
From: Green Valley Arizona
I will check the Kooks again, just not wanting to pay $2k for headers! Although I do agree about price vrs quality.
@Prop Joe Joe, good, well not good info, but good to know. I wonder how my stock exhaust compares to the SE with cats...??? I have read your heads/cam change thread with great interest as I am planning on doing just about the same. But I have yet to find a pair of used 243 heads, well found one pair, 125 miles away and the seller has no history on them. I sure do not want to buy a cracked or warped head. And as has been stated in several threads, getting the 243 heads CNC'ed, then add new springs and such, makes the cost just about the same as a set of new Brawler heads, especially when on sale.
My search continues....................
UPDATE: I checked Kooks again....over $2k for headers/cats and X-pipe.
@Prop Joe Joe, good, well not good info, but good to know. I wonder how my stock exhaust compares to the SE with cats...??? I have read your heads/cam change thread with great interest as I am planning on doing just about the same. But I have yet to find a pair of used 243 heads, well found one pair, 125 miles away and the seller has no history on them. I sure do not want to buy a cracked or warped head. And as has been stated in several threads, getting the 243 heads CNC'ed, then add new springs and such, makes the cost just about the same as a set of new Brawler heads, especially when on sale.
My search continues....................
UPDATE: I checked Kooks again....over $2k for headers/cats and X-pipe.
Last edited by LannyL81; Aug 28, 2024 at 07:51 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
2025 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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Any headers are going to be worth 25-ish HP over stock. And if you have the heads ported that will pair well with the headers and allow them to reach their potential. I picked up 50+ hp with a mild cam, stock 243 heads, stock manifolds, and a tune. With the 4:10 gears it rocks. I started with basically 243 cores and had them serviced, new valves etc…. Keep an eye out on the FS section and post a “WTB” ad, and you’ll find a set sooner or later.
Good luck finding a manufacturer that does comparative tests between theirs against competitors. I suspect there’s not enough difference to make a difference. The SE headers have a good reputation. The Kooks are probably superior materials, but the price is too high for how most of us treat them.
Good luck finding a manufacturer that does comparative tests between theirs against competitors. I suspect there’s not enough difference to make a difference. The SE headers have a good reputation. The Kooks are probably superior materials, but the price is too high for how most of us treat them.
No Hostility Be Happy
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 10,097
Likes: 7,406
From: South Hill Wa
2022 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2021 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I went with Kooks headers and Kooks high flow CCs.
My mechanic told me: "You can pay for quality parts up front, or you can pay me to deal with fitment issues of inferior parts later."
I'm really happy how my setup turned out, 2000 C5 Coupe MN6 now with 500CSHP, HCI, full exhaust and some other tweaks.
My mechanic told me: "You can pay for quality parts up front, or you can pay me to deal with fitment issues of inferior parts later."
I'm really happy how my setup turned out, 2000 C5 Coupe MN6 now with 500CSHP, HCI, full exhaust and some other tweaks.
That's a pretty closed minded way to look at things.
That being said it sounds like you don't work on your own stuff, so I get it.
Just because something doesn't cost as much doesn't mean it automatically doesn't fit right.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 897
Likes: 987
From: NW Burbs of Chi-Town
2025 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I watched Mr Black and his son install the SE headers on one of his quality YT videos and that was all I needed to see. SE should pay him and post his YT video on the SE site.
$761 total for SE headers, X-pipe, Std clamps, MLS gaskets, ARP bolts/washers, plug wires, plug wire sleeves and O2 extensions. SE also added taxes and Only $15 for shipping Can't beat it for the price. They look really nice Jet Hot coated and you'd still be at less than the cost of other brands. Looking at the lifting required for the LG LT makes me glad I made the SE choice. To me the LG is a lift only install. The amount of wooden block on jack stands to get the car high enough for install looks pretty sketchy to me. SE headers slip right in on a Quick Jack. I've done it twice now...
3" SE Cats are $130 each. Looks like they could be installed just after the collector? I can't comment on the exact location. You can always call SE. I've spoken to them a couple of times and seem nice and helpful.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1607815917
$761 total for SE headers, X-pipe, Std clamps, MLS gaskets, ARP bolts/washers, plug wires, plug wire sleeves and O2 extensions. SE also added taxes and Only $15 for shipping Can't beat it for the price. They look really nice Jet Hot coated and you'd still be at less than the cost of other brands. Looking at the lifting required for the LG LT makes me glad I made the SE choice. To me the LG is a lift only install. The amount of wooden block on jack stands to get the car high enough for install looks pretty sketchy to me. SE headers slip right in on a Quick Jack. I've done it twice now...
3" SE Cats are $130 each. Looks like they could be installed just after the collector? I can't comment on the exact location. You can always call SE. I've spoken to them a couple of times and seem nice and helpful.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1607815917
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 1,358
From: Des Plaines, Il
The thing is even if you have to pay an extra hour or two of shop time over kooks to fit, you're still way ahead on price. SE has been around long enough that if they were rotting on the car in a couple years we would have heard about it long ago.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 142
From: Green Valley Arizona
I have ditched the plan of getting cats. Heck with re-sell and emissions. I will likely just keep the stock exhaust system in the rafters and should I need to sell the Corvette and it needs to pass emissions, the new owner can either put the stock system back on or get cats.
I have tried to find Mr. Black's youtube video but have yet to, so THANK YOU for posting it. What are the magic words to put into the search so that it shows up?
I have tried to find Mr. Black's youtube video but have yet to, so THANK YOU for posting it. What are the magic words to put into the search so that it shows up?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
2025 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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I have ditched the plan of getting cats. Heck with re-sell and emissions. I will likely just keep the stock exhaust system in the rafters and should I need to sell the Corvette and it needs to pass emissions, the new owner can either put the stock system back on or get cats.
I have tried to find Mr. Black's youtube video but have yet to, so THANK YOU for posting it. What are the magic words to put into the search so that it shows up?
I have tried to find Mr. Black's youtube video but have yet to, so THANK YOU for posting it. What are the magic words to put into the search so that it shows up?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 897
Likes: 987
From: NW Burbs of Chi-Town
2025 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Hey Lanny,
TSP has a sale right now and they have the LS6 Brawlers in stock for $1653. I know you said you were looking for 243 heads... This seems like a no brainer if I were looking for a set of 243 heads. No need for dual springs on a low lift cam I have. I wonder if you could swap the duals for single beehive.... Depends on cam selection
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-18424-...retainers.aspx
TSP has a sale right now and they have the LS6 Brawlers in stock for $1653. I know you said you were looking for 243 heads... This seems like a no brainer if I were looking for a set of 243 heads. No need for dual springs on a low lift cam I have. I wonder if you could swap the duals for single beehive.... Depends on cam selection
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-18424-...retainers.aspx
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
2025 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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That is an excellent deal considering the grade of parts and machine work alone.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 142
From: Green Valley Arizona
Yeah I have been looking at the sale price for about two weeks now and have ditched the 243 heads for either the Brawler or the AFR Enforcer heads.
Trouble is, I will not have garage space until late April '25, so if I got these heads now, they would be sitting for almost 6 months. I hope TSP puts them on sale again and the '25 price is not increased much....!!!
I have no idea if TSP would swap to a single beehive spring or not.
The Brawler heads come with 0.660 max lift which is 0.100 more than needed for that lo lift cam of theirs.
The AFR heads have a 0.600 max lift.
The lo lift cam only has 0.550 lift.
I have yet to research the spring bind height for both heads, do not want to have more than 0.100" of spring compression remaining, want to avoid spring overshoot and bouncing. Although doubt that I would ever hit that high of RPMs.
Any comments on that??
Guess I can try calling TSP, see what they can do about swapping to beehive springs.
Trouble is, I will not have garage space until late April '25, so if I got these heads now, they would be sitting for almost 6 months. I hope TSP puts them on sale again and the '25 price is not increased much....!!!
I have no idea if TSP would swap to a single beehive spring or not.
The Brawler heads come with 0.660 max lift which is 0.100 more than needed for that lo lift cam of theirs.
The AFR heads have a 0.600 max lift.
The lo lift cam only has 0.550 lift.
I have yet to research the spring bind height for both heads, do not want to have more than 0.100" of spring compression remaining, want to avoid spring overshoot and bouncing. Although doubt that I would ever hit that high of RPMs.
Any comments on that??
Guess I can try calling TSP, see what they can do about swapping to beehive springs.
Last edited by LannyL81; Sep 9, 2024 at 07:59 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 394
From: Virginia
St. Jude Donor '18
I have my own shop and lift, and the only thing I don't do is rebuild motors or transmissions. But when it comes to something I want done perfect, not done to the standard of my racecar, that's where I invest in quality and expertise.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 283
From: West Dundee IL
2024 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
St. Jude Donor '12-'13
Sorry, late to the party. I added TSP cats to my SE x-pipe and couldn't be happier. I lost about 8 rwhp. I still plan to add an 85mm MAF and have the intake and TB ported so I should more than get that back. That'll put me back over 450rwhp with out the raw fuel smell. I just swapped out my Borla S-types with Corsa Sports and I'm in love with the car again. I sent a set of stock 243's to TSP for their PRC 2.5 porting. Probably pretty close to the Brawler price after purchasing the 243's. I don't know enough about the Brawler heads to say if they're better or not but the PRC 2.5 243's have made for a pretty stout combo for me.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 283
From: West Dundee IL
2024 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
St. Jude Donor '12-'13
Just because I CAN do most of my own work, doesn't mean I WANT to. It make take me a week do a task someone else can do in two hours. I may not have the right cutting, or welding, or bending tools.
I have my own shop and lift, and the only thing I don't do is rebuild motors or transmissions. But when it comes to something I want done perfect, not done to the standard of my racecar, that's where I invest in quality and expertise.
I have my own shop and lift, and the only thing I don't do is rebuild motors or transmissions. But when it comes to something I want done perfect, not done to the standard of my racecar, that's where I invest in quality and expertise.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 4,369
From: Florida
2025 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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There's a difference between paying for quality and paying for greed. I try my best to support US production but the reality is they're all made from chinese steel these days and the engineering has been paid for 10 times over in the 20 years they've been on the market. To charge $2k is greed.
Still, am definitely going with SE headers, because that’s where my budget is and they also have a great reputation. So yeah, I would like to have Kooks, but my pride won’t be hurt at all running the SE’s.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 283
From: West Dundee IL
2024 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
St. Jude Donor '12-'13
Theres greed, and there’s reasonable profit. Kooks has been around, what, 50 years? So I’m presuming they know how to run their business and keep their customers happy. Kooks is made in the USA, is made with thicker material, is known to install well, and has a great reputation. These attributes contribute to much higher cost in materials and labor. If I had the budget that’s what I would buy…because then I could afford a top quality product made in America
Still, am definitely going with SE headers, because that’s where my budget is and they also have a great reputation. So yeah, I would like to have Kooks, but my pride won’t be hurt at all running the SE’s.
Still, am definitely going with SE headers, because that’s where my budget is and they also have a great reputation. So yeah, I would like to have Kooks, but my pride won’t be hurt at all running the SE’s.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,323
Likes: 142
From: Green Valley Arizona
@EVL JAKE Any chance you have a picture of where you put the SE cats at?
Or; are they before the X or afterwards? Did you have them welded in place? Are you using 4 O2 sensors or just 2?
SE headers is also where my budget is.
Or; are they before the X or afterwards? Did you have them welded in place? Are you using 4 O2 sensors or just 2?
SE headers is also where my budget is.