GTB/ZR-1

Not to get into a pp match, but the last time I looked in the SCCA T1 ranks, a car beggining w/ the letter 'C' seemed to stack up @ the top of the heap--just ask John Heinricy...

No doubt, the Vipers are awesome performing machines, but in top level racing, showroom stock and production based, Corvette rules the roost :cool:

BTW, don't belittle autocrossers, they make really good road racers ;)

silverz06vette

[QUOTE]This is funny,

All the talk of Z06's destroying Vipers at auto crosses, and here is an event where 6 z06's all moded ran against 4 vipers two of which were stock. The Vipers got a clean sweep 1,2,3,4 and still the debate on this forum goes on.:rolleyes:

Maybe instead of rolling your eye's you can read the true times and you will see that it was the top 3 spots that where won by vipers.

Tony in a Viper 48.562 mod class
Chris in a Viper 51.5 street stock class
Ryan in a Viper 52.326 mod class
Jason in a Z06 52.401 first timer? mod class
Teddy in a Z06 52.697 mod class
Chris in a Z06 52.933 First timer mod class
Linh in a viper 52.9?? street stock class
Les in a Z06 53.500 First timer mod class
Myself DNF :( Still rookie-mod class

I guess since someone over at the viper board does not want to go back and admit that he make a honest mistake on seeing the times you will continue to believe what it says over there.

If you where there at the track, then please go ahead and talk all the smack you want. I guess at the time you where at the coffee shop w/ your viper parked out front posing with your latte'.

BTW all the Vipers that attended DID NOT HAVE ABS, they all had the POOR factory brakes. And yes they still beat every Moded Z06, with ABS and traction control, and cup holders. Here you go again sitting there with your latte thinking you know what the hell you are talking about.

QUOTE]

silverz06vette

Its all about showing up and we where there my friend. Thanks for the invite. Hope to do it again soon. The ride back was a blast for me, I didn't have to worry about any cones. :)

Tim will be running with us at Roebling road, its only his 4th track event. ;)

achilles99

That "Someone" you speak about on the Viperclub Forum happens to be GenerationX on this board (he made the correction on this board, but not yet the other one). I'm sure he'll make the appropriate correction when he can... he's a pretty honest guy, and he made an honest mistake.

Actually, all of the times listed above were what we could remember off the top of our heads. We can revisit the topic when the official numbers are published.

Like you mentioned in another post, though... the important thing is that we had a lot of fun, and got to meet a lot of cool new people. When it comes down to it, consider yourself lucky to have either a Z06 or Viper

:cheers:

PeterK

I have to agree with this statement. Once I got beaten by a guy in Ford lightning by a whole second. Of course he was a regional champ.

GenerationX

As much fun as I had at this event, I am starting to regret saying anything about the results. I did not expect this to erupt into a big Corvette vs. Viper throw-down. I cannot believe all of this! All I wanted to do is beat Ryan!
I am making the correction on the VCA post. For those of you whom I see at the track and at the autocross courses, see you there. But this discussion is getting too emotional for my taste.

Teddy98Z28M6

I agree. There was a honda civic there that ran in the 50.xx. He drove on his every day street tires.

Lihn, we got the lady to print out all the group B times. So the group B times should be correct. Chris has the sheet, or I would scan it.

I had a great time and got to drive a viper gts again! :cheers:


[Modified by Teddy98Z28M6, 9:03 PM 3/17/2003]

PeterK

In my neighborhood - we have this mean and lean RX-7 car on slicks that is just unstoppable. He beats everyone and everything on every event: vettes, vipers, NSX, etc.

silverz06vette

GenX, I apologize for my tone. I should of chose my words better. I let that guy get under my skin and lashed out at you for it. :bb Hope to see you at the next event. Be careful at the Barber track. Sounds like a very challenging course.

achilles99

I didn't really want to say anything, because I thought the point was that we were all having fun... but since honesty seems to be the policy right now (keeping in mind that I am doing this in the interest of having accurate records for future comparison):

According to the "sheets", my best time was actually a 51.xx. So, technically, it was a Viper "sweep." I was told my fastest time on the LED read-out was a 52.9xx I guess the LED readouts were malfunctioning? Which would explain why some of the times that were seen on the LED's for the Vette's were different than what was printed out on the sheets. That's what I actually meant by "we'll see when the official results are published"... not that I didn't believe Group B's times... I was just unsure of my own, ie, Group A's times... at the event, the printout showed that I was only a few tenths behind Chris :)

When the SCCA posts the numbers, I'll be sure to post the times of each competitor on each board, so that there is no confusion.

As for being 80% driver and 20% car... I'd say that it was a LITTLE more than 20% car, but I see your point :)

achilles99

This is a point that needs further clarification... you forgot to mention that in SCCA T1 class, the Viper is FORCED to run air restrictors. The governing body of racing obviously thinks that the Viper has an advantage in stock form. Also, in the Speed GT series, the Viper was FORCED to run SMALLER than stock tire sizes. Again, this implies that the Viper, in stock form, is superior to the Z06 with all things being equal (mainly, driver).

I agree with your auto-x comment... road racing comes naturally after it :)

I know the Vette VS Viper debate is really hard to prove either way. For me, I think the Z06 is probably a better bang for your buck. However, if you stack them up stock vs stock, I think the numbers tend to favor the Viper. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from all magazine tests I've seen, the Viper has superior acceleration figures and better slalom times. The Z06 brakes are better, and I believe in the hands of a novice or intermediate driver (I would put myself in that category) is easier to drive than a Viper on the road course or auto-x course. With experience, I think the Viper can be controlled.

Once again, the best thing about this past weekend was being able to actually meet some of you Z06 guys. Remember, we are still brothers in arms :)


[Modified by achilles99, 2:28 PM 3/18/2003]

NoMercy

It does suck. Too bad both the Vette and the Viper guys can't seem to play nice together.

achilles99

To be honest with you, it seems that the people who actually went to the race together played very nicely together (uh, you know what I mean). Unfortunately, when something like this appears on the internet, you have all sorts of extreme comments from both sides that detract from the main purpose :) It's easy to be bench racers, shouting at each other over cyberspace.

For the most part, I've found Viper, Z06, and general car guys to be super nice at car meets, road courses, and auto-x courses.

woosch

Dam what happened???? On Sunday we were all car guys having fun, then yesterday we get behind the keyboards and all become heros..... :rolleyes:

Truth is on Sunday the guys driving the Vipers posted better times. We could go into the fact that most of us Z06 drivers had never driven at an autocross before but I am taking the high road here and saying that we were out driven. That means we need more practice, so when is the next event??? :D

Congrats to all!!! :cheers:

Now let's get back to being car guys, having fun and enjoying driving our cars.

I have the official sheet for group B so I can only confirm times from that group. The group A guys did have 1 extra run due to the timing gear being all messed up for their first run.

Here are all 3 runs from group B

Tony in a Viper 49.599 DNF 48.562 48.762
Ryan in a Viper 53.213 DNF 63.042 52.326
Jason in a Z06 55.119 DNF 54.097 52.401
Teddy in a Z06 57.102 53.023 52.697
Chris in a Z06 57.701 55.248 52.933
Les in a Z06 59.436 54.924 53.500
BB in a Z06 64.401 DNF 58.618 DNF 56.953 DNF

And there was a guy running in STS class in an 00 Honda Civic that ran a 50.592

achilles99

Very eloquently said. Although this was only my third time in the Viper, I think I was able to improve by at least a relative 2-3 seconds between events. The next time, hopefully everyone will push each other in a positive way to do better. I fully expect the Z06 first-timers to take a few podium spots! The next event in Macon is April 27th, but I'm not sure some of us can make it due to the event at the Barber track.

BTW, not all group A guys had 1 extra run. Some did because of timing errors. I don't think Chris (in Group A) had an extra run. Perhaps you are thinking about when I started my run, but they red flagged the course? They turned me around to restart me (without letting me go through the course... I had to cut back over to the start line). So, I guess technically I had 3.2 runs :)

I think it would be cool if we let each other ride on each other's runs. I would be curious as to where the Z06 is faster than the Viper on the course, and vice versa. It would be a great way to gain some feedback, and it would inevitably improve everyone's times to be able to see the course a few times!


[Modified by achilles99, 2:50 PM 3/18/2003]

woosch

Standing there waiting to run it seemed like all the group a guys got 10 runs :lol:

Quickly looking at the A group sheet I thought they had tossed everyones first run because of timing issues... who knows and it really doesn't matter.

I really like your idea of riding along, I know that having someone in the car with me at Road Atlanta has made my times better, and the big issue with an autocross course is remembering the setup. Hopefully we can get separated more evenly into 2 groups next time.

ryan 94viper

I guess i new this stuff would happen but the only thing that matters is that
we all had fun no matter who came in first. MY thoughts are that everyone that went is a doer not a talker and thats all you can ask. 3/4 of the people on this board and 90% of the people on the viper board are talkers so your oppion does count or matter!!!!!!!!!!!

I am ready to do it again at ROEBLING.........


see ya
ryan

woosch

Let's go!!!!
Are you bringing your trailer? I'm thinking of bringing my 10X15 canopy so we have some cover.

Chris

ryan 94viper

Trailer is a go and if you want me to take some stuff down for you just let me know. I will take my tools and some extra stuff but i should have some room.

ryan

stingray454

I never said that.

Read my earlier post - I readily admit that I was defeated by a Viper's time, although he was in a modified class, and I was stock. I would have been more alarmed if he was stock and had a better time than me.