EOD_M3

Hi all -

I've been lurking for a few days now, and wanted to ask a couple questions about the upcoming Z06. I know that nothing is for sure as of yet, but what is most accepted date for the next version Z06 to come out? I'm asking because I'm seriously considering purchasing one. As you can tell, I have a 2003 M3, which I am really quite happy with. But unless BMW adds some significant HP and Torque to the M3 (or M4, as it may be called) in the next couple of years, then the Z06 will be the car for me. I'm not too keen on the fact that there are now $30,000.00 cars with forced induction 4-cylinders (ie, EVO and WRX Sti) that are running low 13's like my car. The only reason I went with the M3 over the Z06 initially, is that I like having 2 usable back seats, and I don't believe the interior of the Z06 does it justice. No flames please, but this is a *world* class sportscar, with a medicore interior. I just feel that a car like the Z06 deserves an interior that is as nice as the car is overall. Any idea what we can expect for the next version Z06 IRT HP, Torque, transmission, ammenities, etc...? Thanks for your time.

jackmott

its funny, when porsche make cars with simple interiors they are called 'purposeful' and praised.

but when chevy does it, its "cavalier buttons!"

Seems like the car you are after is one that is both a drag strip monster and one that is 'refined'.

kind of an odd combination and you already have one of the best combinations. Perhaps one of the new AMG Mercedes cars would be better for you?

Or maybe you should step into one of those $30k 4 cylinders! They have that back seat you are looking for, perform every bit as well as your M3 (possibly better for the evo) and will save you some $$

EOD_M3

IRT interiors, "simple" wasn't the word I was looking for. "Antiquated" would be a better description. I just don't think the interiors match the car, and I know I'm not the only one out there that thinks this. Do I still think the Z06 is unmatched stock-for-stock in performance for under $100,000 except for the Viper? Yep. But I would think a nicer interior would make any Z06 owner happy. I don't think that's unreasonable. The new AMG Mercedes are definitely fast, but way overpriced and don't handle like an M3 let alone a Z06. If straight line speed were all that I was after there are *ton* of choices out there with mods that cost far less than the Z06 and the M3. I'm looking for the total package at a sane price, and I think IRT sheer performance the Z06 is it. As far the new EVO and WRX, impressive cars, but they surely aren't a 'Vette, they surely aren't an M3, and they're damned ugly to boot.

GTB/ZR-1

I understand your attraction to the 'Power'...
I've owned an E30 & E36 M3's along w/ a 425 HP E39 Tuner 5 series, but cannot deny the Performance envelope/potential of the Corvettes, so I don't pretend w/ other vehicles any more--even though the Bimmers were fine machines. I just came to the realization that I'm a 'Vette person through & through--there is no substitute for me...
Yes, the interior of the cars are nowhere near as opulent as the Teutonic machines, but cost cutting and weight savings were more pressing than a cowhide lined interior.
As for the C6 Z06 variant, I understand interior issues will be addressed, but that car will not be out til late '05(my guess).
Enjoy your M car til then, and stay away from the 4 door Asian machines w/ big factory rear wings... ;)

EOD_M3

Thanks George. I'll be on the lookout for it in late '05. That's about the timeframe I'd be ready to change cars anyway. I understand about the cost and weight savings with the interior, but as you've said, the interiors will be probably addressed with the new C-6. I already figured as much, but wasn't sure. Thanks again :thumbs:

SloPoke

EOD,

I understand where you're coming from about the 'quad-supercharged 1.2 liter' 400hp econobox :) thing that's happening. I imagine there will be a lot more of this for a while. As a result, a lot of C5 people want the C6 to have 650hp etc. Where does it end?

Anyway, Road & Track had an article a while back called "Sibling Rivalry". They had pairs of cars from several makers. M3, C5 Z06, Ferrari 360 and 550 Maranello, etc. They took them all to Thunderhill racetrack (i think) and posted the laptimes. It was all interesting reading. The Z06 finished with the 2nd best laptime, sandwiched in between the Ferrari 360 (fastest) and the 550 Maranello. Not bad for the Z06. But, the next month, some guy wrote in to say that the lap record at that track for a $10k formula vee car would beat all these. An interesting perspective.

PeterK

It is a hard choice that I also had to make when it was time to get rid of my 99.

I've looked into M3 and really liked it - very nice interior, the best resale value, decent power.

I've taken Z06 because it was much more fun car to drive. I do regret the horrible resale value and overall assembly/fit quality is very poor compare to BMW.

So honestly - unless you really need to feel the explosive power - stay with the bimmer.



[Modified by PeterK, 7:18 PM 5/19/2003]

PeterK

I think you should give credit where credit is due and chevy gets no credit for the interior from me.
I already have weatherstip bubbling on the passanger side, and these "leather seats" feel like a cheap vinil to me. The gaps between pannels can swallow a fist etc. This was true on my 99, it is true on my 03. Nah, chevy didn't give rats behind about the interior.

Z06 Quin

EOD_M3,

these cars have an interior???? :confused: :confused: :confused: ...never noticed...too busy looking out the front windshield watching my HUD and where I'm going at high rates of speed......LOL....it's not a luxury sedan (or coupe) like the Bummer, it's a Sports Car.....accept it for what it is....

EOD_M3

Granted, it is a true sports car, but just because a car is considered a pure sports car does not mean it should have an interior leagues below it's performance. Porsche has been making true sports car with a lavish and refined interiors for years. My point is simply that if GM really wanted to put the time and effort into making the interior as nice as the car itself, they could do it for minimal cost hikes, while attaining maximal appreciation and satisfaction from their buyers.

EOD_M3

That seems like very sound advice Peter, thanks. I'm still waiting to see what happens with both cars. Apparently, the next M3 (or M4) will be AWD and will have a 4.5L V-8 putting out well over 400HP. If this happens, I will probably stick with the M since I love everything else about the car, but then again, if the new Z06 gets some nice interior upgrades and a jump in the power numbers, well I don't know what I'll do then. Either way, I've always been both a BMW and a 'vette fan, and always will be no matter which one I'm driving. Thanks again for your input.

EOD_M3

Yep. You're totally right. I'm sucked in to thw whole thing like everyone else is I guess. 650HP?? Yikes!!

johnC5

You can upgrade the interior with carbon-fiber surrounds, install a better radio+speakers, replace the seats+interior elements with Ken King or Caravaggio. This brings up the interior look/quality to match or exceed BMW & Porsche (I found the $120,000 996TT interior to be very nice but plain (the leather quality is excellent)).

I would argue that you can get a somewhat customized interior/car in a way that's not possible for anywhere near the price if you were starting with a BMW or Porsche. Plus, unless you start with an M5 (or transplant an M5 V8 into the M3 (stock on the M3 GTR but $250K)), you won't get the torque or sound of a V8 (the Porsche V8 in the Cayenne doesn't count- it's an SUV).

For C5 interior upgrades see:

http://www.vetteessentials.com
http://www.caravaggiocorvettes.com

The nicest/classiest interior I have seen on the street recently (the owner let us check it out), was the Aston Martin DB7 Volante (V-12 convertible). Full Connolly leather, burr walnut, etc. ( http://www.astonmartin.com/html/db7_volante.html ).


Once you get used to V8 torque and sound, you'll be able to forgive the stock "Playskool"/budget interior (which you can upgrade for relatively little money if you choose). The C5 is the best performance value and probably the best customizeable performance car for the money.

[Edit] As for the M4 with a V8; we'll have to wait and see how it compares to the C6. A German V8 in the near future is the new 340HP Audi S4 (or for more $$$, the RS6 with a 450HP TT V8). IMO the Audi's have the best interiors for the $$$.


[Modified by johnC5, 9:39 PM 5/19/2003]

Mover

It's just my opinion, but from what I've seen over the years, all cars are a compromise of one kind or another.


In the case of sports cars, what I see is the following compromise:

1)Performance

2)Luxury

3)Price


You can have any 2 of the three. Porsche does make nice cars with performance similar to a Z06. But look at the cost. Corvette is pretty solid in it's market niche. I really doubt that they will significantly upgrade the interior at the cost of pricing. That would take them out of their market, which they mostly control.

And I really hope they don't do it at the cost of performance, since I wouldn't buy it myself. I don't expect massive interior quality changes.

PeterK

I don't think this has to be the case.
Chevy now has to discount to sell vettes. Even Z06 are selling $4-5K off MSRP.
GM should have done a better job on the interior to attract buyers of german luxury brands.

rbartick

German cars are also being discounted. The Economy has been pretty bad the past few years.

Mover

If they have to discount now, it doesn't seem likely that raising the price will help. And the traditional Corvette buyers aren't exactly the same market as the German buyers. For Porsche in particular, there is a significant price difference, and production is very low.

PeterK

Well, M3 are still going at the sticker.

I honestly think that GM just won't care unless that can't sell every vette they make. Heck - these huge panel gaps shouldn't have been there to begin with. And the mold lines on the dash board - something you won't find even on the cheap korean econoboxes.

Really sad since vette is THE only car in chevy/pontiac/olds line that they sell for profit - they loose money on the rest of their lineup.

rbartick

How in the world could GM stay in business if the only car they make a profit on is a Corvette? This post sounds very wrong to me. Where are you getting this info?

No car is perfect but I think you would be a lot happier in an M3. I never even noticed "huge panel gaps" in my Z06.


[Modified by rbartick, 11:02 AM 5/20/2003]

2002 Z06

I have had my '02 Z06 for one year now and in two years I will have a second one sitting side by side next to it in my garage. M3 owner, have you ever drove a current Z06. I know you would be VERY impressed with the performance and surprised by its ride quality. I also owned a '99coupe Z51 and the Z06 actually gives me a more compliant ride around town. Probably due to the lack of run flats. Anyway, my car exhibits no rattles, no squeaks, no vibrations and one of the most killer exhaust sounds you will get from a stock production car. Yes i agree the interior could use some work. But on a Friday night i would drive down to Raceway Park with the AC blasting listening to my favorite rock CD in 90 degree weather, clip off 12.4-12.5 et's
at @ 116 bone stock and then drive 45 miles all the way back home smiling
getting 28 miles to the gallon. This all for the 46,095 I paid for the car.
P.S. Since i have added an x-pipe ($259) and vortex ram air ($249). I am now running 12.1-12.2 @118(everything else stock including tires). All this for a total of 46,603. Now is there any car on the planet that could compare?

:nono: