Geneus

Optic,

If I am reading the numbers correctly, you see a difference of ~2 RWHP and 2 RWTQ between the TRAP and the Vararam. Wouldn't you consider this within the coefficient of variance for the analytical tool (in this case, a dynanometer) you used for the measurement? My calculations come up with a 0.48% difference in HP (379.1-377.3/377.3 x 100) and a 0.68% difference in TQ (369.5-367/367 x 100), hardly significant. Or am I just stupid and reading this all wrong.

To quote from a famous movie, "can someone explain this to me like I'm a 6 year old?" ("Philadelphia" was the movie, in case anyone was interested).

rbartick

My timing specs are still stock. My only changes to timing are I eliminated all IAT related retard until the IAT sensor hits 125 degrees F. This is a good thing to do. My WOT high load timing is 22 degrees. I have tried more timing in this area but that seemed to always lead to more knock around the TQ peak without really giving me any more power. If I wanted to run more than 22 degrees I would have to run richer to prevent knock. My car seems to like 22 degress so I have been sticking with that and I play with A/F instead. Not sure if a car with LT headers would work like mine does, maybe not.

I try to start off lean (about 14:1) and I richen it up around the TQ peak (about 12.5:1) and then lean off after the TQ peak shooting back for something in the high 13s. Delivered A/F is going to shift a bit with PCM learning and weather conditions so I just try to get fairly close and I call it a day. I monitor my car for knock signals when racing. Being a better driver is going to make much more of a difference than an A/F ratio that is a little less than "perfect". In my experience it takes a pretty big shift in A/F ratio to make a significant change in HP (more than 10). Here is a data log from a recent 1/4 mile pass. You can see my timing specs in the log.



Click image for a larger view :)

Zen06

:sleep:
I'd like to see the numbers with 70-80 mph of air being sucked into them. I think it is useless to statically dyno an airbox, when they really only show their true mettle on the road with air being pulled in. I think the Vararam numbers would be better.

ApeelinZ

:iagree:

Brandon619

Yeah,the only thing I didn't like about the vararm is that is does not come with a airduct.I think the halltech goes all the way to the tb.I still like my vararam so I just bought an airduct from L.A.P.D. nice and big! :eek:

Halltech

Thanks for the info Optic. Quick question. Did you use the stock airbridge for the VR test? Our TRAP not only changes out the air intake from the MAF inlet to the filter, it replaces the entire accordion cobra style stock airbridge. The Tunnel Bridge alone is worth 3 RWHP on the LS1 and 5.5 RWHP on the Z06 at full tilt. 10.5 on the 427.

21st Century Muscle car did similar testing and got better results. See:
http://www.corvettec5.com/store/?page=shop/dyno

The bottom section only is only $239.00 vs. $499.00 for the entire TRAP. On the track the TRAP with our front Tunnel Port should do well against the VR, since we incorporate RAM AIR directly into the filter.

Testing will tell.

Our dyno numbers showed 20.1 RWHP gain with the TRAP vs stock and 22 ft. lbs torque gain. This was on on 03 LS1 Automatic.

The TRAP CF adds 3 more RWHP over the Poly GEN 1 version, since the bottom section of the TRAP was developed by Dan Gurney's airflow guru on the flowbench. It flows smoother than the plastic version, which helps with the initial tuning.

So far, all of the 392 to 397 RWHP records have been set with our carbon fiber version of the TRAP. This new bottom will show up on our poly unit this month.

Initially, this bottom made for a very difficult installation of the fascia to the shroud, in terms of re-installing the 7 mm screws. We have fixed that, making a new mold for the bottom TRAP section.

If you are going to redyno, we'll send you our GEN 2 Carbon Fiber TRAP. It might be two weeks, since we have some folks to get these to first under warranty.


[Modified by Jim Hall, 4:05 AM 12/18/2003]


[Modified by Jim Hall, 4:15 AM 12/18/2003]

0opticZ06

Jim yes the Vararam had the stock air bridge, I just ran what both vendors sent me. Yes send one of the carbon fiber bridges and I will retest on the car. I am sure both cars will make more power later, remember both cars had around 80 miles on them as well, far from a broken in engine.

Jim thanks for the overnight of the TRAP it made it just in time.

Guys I am sure the dyno can go one way or the other and I am sure when I take them back the results will be different, it is amazing how one day has one result and the next another.

Cheers

vettethret

I'll be seeing Jim this saturday for the install of the CF Trap along with his tuning and 160 degree Thermostat. I'm having the car Dynoed before I go in so we can see how it goes. Jims set up is expensive but I have a feeling it will be worth it! See ya Saturday Jim. :cheers: :party:

Dr.Ron

:iagree: And look what my car did w/ the VR & a tune!!!!! I'd rather have a mod that performs in the real world (track or street where it's actually performing) as opposed to sitting still on a dyno machine. That is useless to me!!!!!

ZO6Les

Dr. Ron,

Agree 100%. IMO Dyno comparisons are a waste of time for a CAI system, and the variance measured is meaningless. Dyno's should be used to tune a car and get a relative measure of improvement from mods, no more, no less. Comparing different cars, different times, different dyno's, cities and all that consumes an interesting amount of bandwidth here. The fact is my car never trapped better than 118 MPH before Vararam, and it trapped 120 MPH after. Before Vararam Optic pulled me in 4th gear with a car with less RWHP as measured on the same dyno, same day (Optic had a Vararam, I had the T1). Two weeks later I had my Vararam installed, same track, and I pulled Optic this time. People can draw whatever conclusions they like, Optic and I are both relatively experienced drag racers.

Looking at the design of the Vararam IMO if will bring in more air, and the potential for positive barometric pressure, better than the TRAP. I could be wrong, and in any event both look like good systems, and having used Halltech and now Vararam I can tell you that in my experience Jim (Halltech) and Patrick (Vararam) are both stand up guys.

Come spring hopefully we will have some trap speed comparisons, in any event cold air rules :)

Les

Halltech

Hi Les.

Glad to see you are still running our Tunnel Bridge. The Tunnel Bridge is the upper part of the TRAP, which was cloned from the T-1 Cobra bridge you are running.

The TRAP replaces the stock airbox and the cheap acordion cobra airbridge from the factory.

We designed that bridge and have made improvements over the years back in 1999 for the C5. The changes included more plenum volume, and a smooth transistion from the 100mm outlet directly into the throttle body.

The floor and the roof of the plenium have been increased by 15% overstock.

We have a racer only unit, which we have experimented with, that really makes the power, with a much smoother floor and an increase of 6% in plenium volume over our standard Tunnel Bridge, but it will not fit with the stock Z06 radiator. A lower radiator or one installed at an angle the way Andy does his, would make this the ticket.

I had this on our 2002 with our F!TT radiator, just before Andy installed our low compression heads.
Jim

0opticZ06

Jim when do you think I can get the carbon bridge to test out buddy, I will have both of the cars at the tuner shoot out at carolina dragway so we can see 1/4 times.

Halltech

We are making them as quickly as possible, but we have a couple more customers waiting for systems.

Vettethreat should be getting his done Monday. Missed him Saturday.

Vettethreat's got the first production version of our new bottom section which makes installation of the carbon fiber unit as easy as the plastic version.

We should have another one ready by Wednesday.

We have a couple of TRAP CF and bolt on exhaust customers that have made major numbers:

"Oh so close to 400 with bolt ons
Went to Freemont this morning with a bunch of guys for a dyno day at ATP. It was a nice 70 dgree morning and I was the thrid car on.
First pull 395.8hp and 381.3tq, second pull 397.3 and 382.1 and thrid was 395.0 and 383.7. I'm real happy with the results.

A very special thanks to Reboot. He spent alot of time tuning my car. Dude knows how to tune these monsters. A/F was a perfect 13.0 across the board with the 91 we get in Cali.

It was a Dyno Jet and the numbers are corrected."


__________________
Big D

Shut up and Race!
TTS long tubes, Magna Flow X-pipe, Polished Borlas, Halltech TRAP, Shaner TB, LS-1 edit, Hurst shifter, MSI rollbar, 5 point Crow harness, Eradi Speed rotors and 1 million hp.......

Another:



This was our 2002 Z06 before and after underhood bolt ons only. Stock Z06 headers, to the titanium exhaust:



Jim


[Modified by Jim Hall, 6:23 PM 12/21/2003]