i am wanting to try some DE events next season and they require a 3point or better harness for both seats. i am wondering what you guys have found that works for you, any recommendations?
5 point is safer, but keep in mind my car is also a daily driver (doing up a 5 point a couple times a day could get annoying quick i think) is there any harnesses that can be used without removing the stock seatbelts? i also am considering installing a roll cage in the future, so i don't want to install anything that will interfear with that if possible... so can anyone help a noob out?

 

You do realize that the stock harness is a 3 point? If you do not want to go the bother of installing a harness bar and a set of 5 or 6 point harnesses the stock belt will work very well. Once you get a lot of track miles under your belt you may want to invest in a track only belt system (the 5 and 6 point harnesses you get for the track are not certified for street use and are not legal in states that have mandatory seat belt laws).

If you want to use the stock belt just run the seat all the way back then put the belt on and pull it all the way out until it goes into cinch mode (with a C4 push the cinch button). Then shove as much of the belt as you can get back into the take up spool. Now run the seat forward to your driving position. You will be held in the seat just as tight as a 5 point will hold you. Once you get on the track the shoulder belt will cinch also and you be held in very tight. However, your right side upper body will be able to move around. A 5 or 6 point belt will keep your right upper body from moving so much and has a sub belt to keep the lap belt from riding up to high. Usually the street belts do not need the sub belt since the shoulder belts do pull up on the lap belt.

Bill

 

The stock is 3 point.

To place real racing belts in you will need a harness bar that goes between the shoulder belt anchor points and gets bolted to the seat frame.

These belts with or without the anti-submarine are not intended for daily driving. They store behind your seat and are only used at approrpiate track events. Most are not event DOT rated for street use as strange as that may seem.

If you do 1 or 10 DEs per year the upgraded belts are a requirement for 2 reasons:
1. You are firmly strapped to the seat thus you cannot move or slide around as you do with the stock belts no matter how tight you try to make them. You can place uour full attention on effort on driving the car smoothly.
2. In event of a impact the optional belts will do a better job of holding you in place and reduce the chance of injuries.

 

The 5 and 6 point systems are installed seperately from the stock belts, and are made with quick disconnects that make it very easy to clip the actual belts in and out of the car.

It's not uncommon at all to buy one of these kits for autocrossing on the weekends and simply slipping the harness belts behind the seat and using the stock belts for normal driving.

Don't underestimate how much better you can focus on driving the car when you're fully locked and loaded in a 5 pt harness. You quickly realize how much you were using your body, legs, arms etc to try to stay secure with the factory belts once you experience your car with a harness system.

 

this is great feedback guys - thanks. i hadnt thought about the stock belts as being a 3 point, but now that you mention it, it seems obvious
anyway, greg, the thought of a 5 point that clips in for a weekend event and is easy to remove for daily driving apeals to me. is this what you use? and if so, which brand/model would you recommend?

 

I believe he is talking about the actual belt bukcling and unbuckling not the installationin your car which will require a harness bar as described in a previous post.

Think about it the 5/6 point harness needs to be permanently atatched to your car it can not be something else.

 

I started doing DE events this past summer-wow what a blast!!

i will be getting a setup this winter, and have done exhaustive research on this.

Just to let you know what I decided on. for a harness setup-Brey/Krause. Absolutely nothing better anywhere. I would say 90% of the Porsche and Z06 drivers at my DE events use their harness system.

for belts, I will be using a Schroth 6 point system that includes the sub belt. This harness/belt setup is expensive, but you will only buy it once, and next to extremely good brakes, this is the most important component at the track, IMO.

 

You do not want to drive with a harness on but when you do get one, you get a harness bar, as everyone has said, AND if you want a five point, a lot of people drill a hole thru the floor and place a bolt for the fifth belt. My car is leased so that was not an option, so I bought used a metal bracket that fits neatly under the seat, uses stock bolt holes, etc, and has a center hole drilled in the front to affix your antisubmarine belt. I do not know the manufacturer but maybe someone else can help.mddpm

 

Great point, I had a five point in my 96 that I did Solo II events in, nade a huge difference.

I couple other observations I have been told, feel free to disagree. I have been told if you have a 5 pt you should use a roll cage, because if you flip (not likley on solo II) you cannot move your head and need the roll cage to protect you. It made sense to me, when I ran with the targa off my helmet stook out adn no way could I move.

Once I belting in I could not reach the open door to close it. the 5 or 6 pt harness really puts you in the right spot to drive. I foulnd it was not condusive or legal for street driving. But really loved the way it snugged me in there.

Another tip, for those who like me are a lttle uncomfortable with the harness and helmet. When I put them in I was a little freaked out by how constricted and closed in I felt. i spoke to a race about this and he said just suit up and sit in it for 15 minutes at a time, aftera few time i felt right at home. You may not experience this but I'm 6 foot 275 lbs and was in a C4, Ithink I actually bought the Zo6 beecause the 96 no longer fit me just a litlle self deprecating humor.

Lastly If you plan on doing racing events like autocross its very worth while, just from the point it holds you and lets you concentrate on driveing, as for safety, as I said it could be less safe wothouth a roll cage. Anyone else heard this???

Gonzo

 

I have an 03 Z06, which I use as my daily driver. For tracking, I add brake duct hoses to the Doug Rippie ducts that are permanently installed on my car. I like a 5 or 6 point harness, which keeps the driver in place during turns much better than the OEM 3 point harness. Also, in some relatively minor accidents, I have seen broken ribs in both passenger and driver from lateral impacts where they slipped out from a 3 point harness. I have also seen 1 head injury from a similar spinning impact with a 3 point harness.

For my 6 point harness, I found a terrific product made by Hardbar. There is a steel angle iron sub-belt bar which fastens using the existing seat mount bolts. Both the sub belt and lap belts of the 6 point harness fasten to this piece. The second part is a machined aluminum bar which fastens using the OEM shoulder belt bolt holes, spanning the car behind the seats. The 6 point shoulder harness is mounted on this bar. This bar also has mounting holes in the top, where you can mount the OEM shoulder harnesses about 2 inches inboard from their normal location. You can leave the whole thing in the car all the time. The only compromise is you lose some backwards seat tilt where it hits the cross bar.

The only serious problem I incurred was related to trying to take the bar in and out multiple times. It can be done in about 30 minutes. But, it turns out that the OEM bolt holding the shoulder harness in the steel cage of the car is a "mushroom" bolt, not intended for re-use. I could see some thread material coming out when I removed the hardbar bolt, or the OEM bolt after the first time. The tubular passage the bolt seats in is only tapped about 1/2 way through. I re tapped the hole, extending the threads to about double the original length. The OEM bolt is an AN 11 bolt. I was able to take a straight thread AN 12 bolt (stronger than the OEM), and have an AN 12 washer tacked on it. I then use that bolt with the OEM belts, the shoulder matching the flange size on the bolt that comes in the original installation. Either the longer Hardbar bolt, or the new, shorter custom bolt thread straight in with no disruption of threads. Either of these bolts is seated with about double the thread length as the original bolt, problably not important as any stress would be shear, not traction.

Have fun and keep the shiny side up. The Hardbar products can be seen at http://www.hardbar.net/.