Problems with a 402 + blower
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Salzburg Austria
Problems with a 402 + blower
I have a C5 with 402 CI Callies and A&A blower kit, 225 AFR heads, LGM headers, Borla stinger.
I use 60# injectors and a Porsche GT pump in the tank + Boost a pump (the fuel rails are originals).
Now one time the AFR is to rich and one time too poor without changing the tables! Do i have to change the system to 8" and dash 6" , is there the problem?
Is it normal that i need much oil from Maximum to Minimum after some massive rounds on the track or about 600 miles on the german higway?
Thanks for your help
I use 60# injectors and a Porsche GT pump in the tank + Boost a pump (the fuel rails are originals).
Now one time the AFR is to rich and one time too poor without changing the tables! Do i have to change the system to 8" and dash 6" , is there the problem?
Is it normal that i need much oil from Maximum to Minimum after some massive rounds on the track or about 600 miles on the german higway?
Thanks for your help
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
Depending on how your tune is setup, it could be a tuning issue. Actually, it is most likely a tune issue.
If it doesnt have the VE and MAF tables properly dialed in, it can be very inconsistent. The proper way to tune it is to install a 2 bar map sensor and tune it 2 bar speed density. I've done many of them. I been over to Germany twice to tune, and may be back in September.
As for using oil, how is your PCV system hooked up? Do you use a catch can?
Who tuned it originally? Was it built and tuned over there?
If it doesnt have the VE and MAF tables properly dialed in, it can be very inconsistent. The proper way to tune it is to install a 2 bar map sensor and tune it 2 bar speed density. I've done many of them. I been over to Germany twice to tune, and may be back in September.
As for using oil, how is your PCV system hooked up? Do you use a catch can?
Who tuned it originally? Was it built and tuned over there?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Salzburg Austria
Thanks for your answer!
I don`t think that it is a tune issue because it is unable to approach to the right AFR because without changing a table one time it is to rich and one time to poor. Maybe the boos a pump is to inexact with the starting point or the original fuel rails and the original fuel system with the filter and pressure controller is overstrained?
Now i ordered a 3 bar map sensor because i have a new pulley for 15 psi now.
No i don`t use a catch can (but i have one) because i don`t know where to put on the blown engine?
Is the massive oil consumption normal with a callies 402 Kit?
I don`t think that it is a tune issue because it is unable to approach to the right AFR because without changing a table one time it is to rich and one time to poor. Maybe the boos a pump is to inexact with the starting point or the original fuel rails and the original fuel system with the filter and pressure controller is overstrained?
Now i ordered a 3 bar map sensor because i have a new pulley for 15 psi now.
No i don`t use a catch can (but i have one) because i don`t know where to put on the blown engine?
Is the massive oil consumption normal with a callies 402 Kit?
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,331
Likes: 4
From: Jacksonville Florida
Sounds to me like your IFR table is incorrect.
Once you get to 60+ pound injectors, generally if the IFR table varies greater then 1% from top to bottom, you can VE tune it all day long and you will overshoot every correction (its a small glitch in GM's software).
Im guessing your fuel pressure is not boost referenced? Can you post up your tune or at least the IFR table?
It defenetily sounds like a tuning issue as Ed said, and he is absolutely spot on about how it should be tuned, 2 bar speed density (or 3 bar if you go over 14.7).
I would be more concerned about the massive oil consumption at this point, that is not normal.
Once you get to 60+ pound injectors, generally if the IFR table varies greater then 1% from top to bottom, you can VE tune it all day long and you will overshoot every correction (its a small glitch in GM's software).
Im guessing your fuel pressure is not boost referenced? Can you post up your tune or at least the IFR table?
It defenetily sounds like a tuning issue as Ed said, and he is absolutely spot on about how it should be tuned, 2 bar speed density (or 3 bar if you go over 14.7).
I would be more concerned about the massive oil consumption at this point, that is not normal.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Salzburg Austria
Ok that`s right. Should i use only one numerical value in this table?
It`s the flow rate vs. kpa?!
It`s the flow rate vs. kpa?!
Sounds to me like your IFR table is incorrect.
Once you get to 60+ pound injectors, generally if the IFR table varies greater then 1% from top to bottom, you can VE tune it all day long and you will overshoot every correction (its a small glitch in GM's software).
Im guessing your fuel pressure is not boost referenced? Can you post up your tune or at least the IFR table?
It defenetily sounds like a tuning issue as Ed said, and he is absolutely spot on about how it should be tuned, 2 bar speed density (or 3 bar if you go over 14.7).
I would be more concerned about the massive oil consumption at this point, that is not normal.
Once you get to 60+ pound injectors, generally if the IFR table varies greater then 1% from top to bottom, you can VE tune it all day long and you will overshoot every correction (its a small glitch in GM's software).
Im guessing your fuel pressure is not boost referenced? Can you post up your tune or at least the IFR table?
It defenetily sounds like a tuning issue as Ed said, and he is absolutely spot on about how it should be tuned, 2 bar speed density (or 3 bar if you go over 14.7).
I would be more concerned about the massive oil consumption at this point, that is not normal.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Salzburg Austria
7.98438 8.03125 8.08594 8.13281 8.18750 8.21875 8.27344 8.32031 8.36719 8.42188 8.47656 8.50781 8.55469 8.60938 8.64844 8.69531 8.74219
These are the injector flow rates from 0 to 80 (they are the base infos from A&A corvette). Should i take the 8,74 for all?
These are the injector flow rates from 0 to 80 (they are the base infos from A&A corvette). Should i take the 8,74 for all?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
Thanks for your answer!
I don`t think that it is a tune issue because it is unable to approach to the right AFR because without changing a table one time it is to rich and one time to poor. Maybe the boos a pump is to inexact with the starting point or the original fuel rails and the original fuel system with the filter and pressure controller is overstrained?
Now i ordered a 3 bar map sensor because i have a new pulley for 15 psi now.
No i don`t use a catch can (but i have one) because i don`t know where to put on the blown engine?
Is the massive oil consumption normal with a callies 402 Kit?
I don`t think that it is a tune issue because it is unable to approach to the right AFR because without changing a table one time it is to rich and one time to poor. Maybe the boos a pump is to inexact with the starting point or the original fuel rails and the original fuel system with the filter and pressure controller is overstrained?
Now i ordered a 3 bar map sensor because i have a new pulley for 15 psi now.
No i don`t use a catch can (but i have one) because i don`t know where to put on the blown engine?
Is the massive oil consumption normal with a callies 402 Kit?
As for a 3 bar, I would just stick to the 2 bar. Better table resolution, and you will be able to go just beyond 15 psi safely. I would only use a 3 bar if you were planning on going pretty far beyond 15 psi, say 18 pounds and up.
A catch can should be installed in the pcv line between the hose coming of the valve cover, and the pcv valve. They mount on the front of the passenger side cylinder head.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Salzburg Austria
I understand what you say and it`s the best way with an other MAP to make it visible for the PCM.
What i don`t unterstand is the situation with this constellation at the moment: if the engine is under pressure with 100% TPS the PCM uses always the same table. How can it be that one dynorun the car is to rich and one too lean with the same table and without changing anything? It should always take the same tables or not?
Is it maybe the flow rate vs. kpa table that makes problems? Should it i use only one numerical value in this table like the 8,74?
What i don`t unterstand is the situation with this constellation at the moment: if the engine is under pressure with 100% TPS the PCM uses always the same table. How can it be that one dynorun the car is to rich and one too lean with the same table and without changing anything? It should always take the same tables or not?
Is it maybe the flow rate vs. kpa table that makes problems? Should it i use only one numerical value in this table like the 8,74?
Last edited by hotparts; May 13, 2008 at 02:47 PM.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Salzburg Austria
I understand what you say and it`s the best way with an other MAP to make it visible for the PCM.
What i don`t unterstand is the situation with this constellation at the moment: if the engine is under pressure with 100% TPS the PCM uses always the same table. How can it be that one dynorun the car is to rich and one too lean with the same table and without changing anything? It should always take the same tables or not?
Is it maybe the flow rate vs. kpa table that makes problems? Should it i use only one numerical value in this table like the 8,74?
What i don`t unterstand is the situation with this constellation at the moment: if the engine is under pressure with 100% TPS the PCM uses always the same table. How can it be that one dynorun the car is to rich and one too lean with the same table and without changing anything? It should always take the same tables or not?
Is it maybe the flow rate vs. kpa table that makes problems? Should it i use only one numerical value in this table like the 8,74?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Salzburg Austria
@edcmat
thanks for your correction!
I testet it and now it was too lean always at 14,5 AFR (i only testet 5 th gear at 2000 rpm 3 or 4 seconds with 100TPS).
Then i tried to set the EQ ratio vs rpm at 2000-2800 rpm x1,15 and 3200 to 6000 rpm x 1,3. With this changing it got much too rich > 9 AFR
Can it be that this settings have such a big effect?
steve
thanks for your correction!
I testet it and now it was too lean always at 14,5 AFR (i only testet 5 th gear at 2000 rpm 3 or 4 seconds with 100TPS).
Then i tried to set the EQ ratio vs rpm at 2000-2800 rpm x1,15 and 3200 to 6000 rpm x 1,3. With this changing it got much too rich > 9 AFR
Can it be that this settings have such a big effect?
steve
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
@edcmat
thanks for your correction!
I testet it and now it was too lean always at 14,5 AFR (i only testet 5 th gear at 2000 rpm 3 or 4 seconds with 100TPS).
Then i tried to set the EQ ratio vs rpm at 2000-2800 rpm x1,15 and 3200 to 6000 rpm x 1,3. With this changing it got much too rich > 9 AFR
Can it be that this settings have such a big effect?
steve
thanks for your correction!
I testet it and now it was too lean always at 14,5 AFR (i only testet 5 th gear at 2000 rpm 3 or 4 seconds with 100TPS).
Then i tried to set the EQ ratio vs rpm at 2000-2800 rpm x1,15 and 3200 to 6000 rpm x 1,3. With this changing it got much too rich > 9 AFR
Can it be that this settings have such a big effect?
steve