Thanks for posting up Roy. We'll pass on touching this one if he calls - thanks for the heads up.

Stephen

 

Despite the details of this exact transaction....raising the idle speed is still not the correct way to cure an erratic idle/stalling condition.

(Which seems to be the original complaint).

 

Agreed. However, reading Icon's response, the OP may not be as truthful as we assumed. The OP stated that "the tuner said they would raise the idle speed" and we do not now know if that is really what was said or not.

 

This was to be expected from the original source. Back in September, the original poster of this thread came to my shop extremely uncertain of what he wanted to do to his Corvette with little, if any knowledge about how any engine works or how to pull more power out of it. I spent atleast an hour with him explaining different options as I usually do with everyone else. Turns out at the end of that conversation we were going to go with a forged bottom end with heads and cam. I put the quote together on paper and he was to get back to me. A week or so later he came back with his own ideas of what should be done to the car based on what he researched on the internet. Ok, so I proceeded to explain my opinions about it. We did another quote. He went on his way. Weeks went by and numerous conversations later he decided he wanted a supercharger. I highly recommended the ATI Procharger system. Each time we changed the quotes I would give him a ballpark estimate of what kind of horsepower the package should put out. I could do this because of the numerous packages similar to this that we had put together over the past years. As with every other quote I had given him, he cringed on the pricing which had even been discounted just because he was a law enforcement officer of the local area. The last conversation we had he decided to take matters into his own hands and said he was going to supply his own parts and just wanted us to do the labor and tune the vehicle when it was done. This is something I will not guarantee anything on as far as horsepower numbers. I was hesitant because he told me he had found a used Magnacharger kit but since I had already spent this much time with this guy I went ahead and agreed to take on the job. This is where it gets interesting. A few weeks go by and he shows up one day and drops off about ten different boxes of different sizes and colors. Magnacharger kit, camshaft, cylinder heads, pushrods, valvesprings, lifters, oil pump, clutch, headers with H-pipe, boost and fuel gauges, and a Gen 1 small block chevy chrome thermostat housing. EVERYTHING I just listed was USED, purchased off of eBay and other related sources and some of it wasntt even correct for this application. To make this long story a little bit shorter, the non-intercooled magnacharger kit was NOT complete, the cylinder heads as Roy stated were poorly ported if any at all and looked fairly stock otherwise. The camshaft was not of the specs that I had put on the package I quoted him. I did not know what to say about someone actually purchasing a used clutch and willing to pay the labor that it consists of for installing it especially in a C5. We let him know we were hesitant about putting it in but he insisted because the guy he bought it from on the internet said it had "low" miles on it.

Ok, we went ahead and got started with this project because he had some "Corvette shows" that he was wanting to take it to. Throughout the process, he would stop by and grab parts that were removed to take to either get plated, painted, polished or what have you. Everytime he did this it would halt progress of the project because we wouldnt see those pieces back for days..sometimes a week. He didnt feel he attributed to the time it was taking to complete the project yet we have a car stuck on a lift up in the air because of this. Weeks went by, we finished the car, started it up and it had an oil leak due to the aftermarket chrome front timing cover. We went ahead and repaired it for him at a discounted rate just to get the job done and he agreed. He then came to the shop to pick it up two days after we told him it was ready and went to test drive it and came back with an idling problem. We went outside to try to duplicate it and it wouldnt. So we figured maybe its a cold start issue so just leave the car another day so we can sort out the issue and see if it will happen again in the morning. We did NOT tell him we were only going to "raise the idle". Ofcourse that is not going to fix the problem as it idled just fine when he came back from the test drive at normal operating temperature. The next day we duplicated the problem and addressed it as needed, started the car up at various times of the day, drove it, and decided to keep it another day just to make sure it wouldnt do it again in the morning. All was good the next day so we called him to come and get it. He shows up, goes for a test drive for about 30 minutes, comes back and said "its fixed. It runs and idles great. Can you put some air in my tires they are a little low and i want to go drive it some more". Sure no problem. He's off again. About 3 hours go by and we are wondering where he went and if everything is ok. (Mind you he hadnt paid a penny of the remaining balance of this project). About 7:30 pm he shows up to pick up the original car he drove up here and starts talking to my employees downstairs for about a half hour about how well the car ran and got sideways on him when he floored it. He then comes upstairs while Im doing some paperwork and has a copy of the invoice in his hand which he modified in his own way on how much and what he was going to pay for. He subtracted the Dynotune, installation of the gauges and pillar molding, and the repair of the leaking front timing cover seal. I asked why do you feel you don't have to pay for he dyno tune when you just drove the car twice, and told us that everything is fine? His reply was "well this is my first go-around with something like this and I need to go have another shop check it out to make sure its ok before I pay you for it. Also, I dont see how you guys could have tuned my car with the tire pressure being that low (25psi)". Ok, I dont agree but why are you not going to pay for the installation of the gauges? "Well I originally wanted them on the side of the center console". -He brought us a dual gauge pillar molding and gauges to install. We started installing this then just before they were wired up he called my employee and told him to stop, he didnt want them there. Employee told him that they were pretty much installed and holes had already been drilled to secure the pillar molding. At a later date, the owner of the car told him to go ahead and finish installing the gauges in the original location. About the front seal leak. He claimed we should have known that the leak would have happened due to the used ebay crank pulley and aftermarket chrome cover/seal.

We tried to explain to him the best way we could that we performed the services that he requested and agreed on and he agreed that everything was ok at time of delivery. He still refuses not to pay the balance in full and leaves partial payment and walks away. Being the fact that he is a Fort Bend County Deputy I had second thoughts about what to do. Hold his car here? Wait, cant do that because he took it home on the test drive and locked it up intentionally. Physically detain him? Call the police? Wait, he is the police!? I was thinking maybe since he is a deputy and we were aware of that, he could use that power against us and pay what he just simply felt like paying. So, I discussed it with my employees and decided to call him to discuss this futher and resolve it. No answer from my phone after numerous calls. The next day we call from an anonymous number and he answers and says he will come by shortly. The day goes by with no answer to our calls. So I decide to go ahead and call the police and they come by and confirm that he performed "Theft of Services". Since one of the deputies that responded to the call recognized his name and that he went through the Police Academy with him asked If he could try to resolve it with him before I file charges. I agreed. Im not out to try to slander someones reputation but I refuse to be ripped off so I will give it until 2pm the next day. I understand that the Lieutenant of the department was informed of this and he came by and paid the balance in full the next day.

Let it be known that the whole invoice at the beginning of this ordeal was discounted just because he was a deputy of the area where we are located. You live and learn, and good luck to whoever takes on this project in the future.

Mike@ICON Autosports

 

I agree completely. I was the one that built and tuned the car and when I drove it over to MTI (20+ miles round trip) to dyno it, I didn't have any issues with it surging or dying. Of coarse, I have driven plenty of cars with hugh cams and heavy clutches before so I was aware of how to drive it. Once everything was done and the car was dynoed and road tuned he came over to test drive it. As soon as he got in the car and back it out of the parking lot, I realized that this was his very first modded vehicle. He kept on stalling it himself and riding the crap out of the clutch to get it to move. When he brought it back and complained of it dieing on him I tried to explain nicely that he would have to relearn how to drive it but I would look at the idle anyways. I was trying to tell him that he would have to bring the idle up slightly before he tried pulling out the clutch pedal but I don't think he understood. Well the next morning is when that major cold front blew in (which also explains the loss of tire pressure) and when I started the car up when it was in the lower 40s in the shop it did have a slight surge for the first few seconds of run time but still didn't die on its own. I adjusted the idle air table accordingly, tested it the next cold morning and everything was perfect. Within the next couple of days he comes by to drive it again and asks me to put air in the tires since they where low. I did so and off he went again, this time he takes a few hours to come back and when he did he had a hugh smile on his face and told me the car ran perfect and it was so fast that it got sideways on him and he had to back out of the throttle. I talked to him for about an hour about it. Then he went up to Mike and told him we was not going to pay for the tune because he doesn't believe that we even dynoed the car since it had 25psi in the tires. I was shocked. How the hell can you put on a maggy, hugh cam with unknown specs, headers, bigger injectors, etc and get the car to even start without fouling the plugs without a tune. The whole combination was wrong from the beginning but I put it together anyways and made it work. What he did afterwards (tried to rip us off) was just wrong and illegal. It was unfortunate we had to call the cops on the cops but it was necessary. He should be happy that we didn't file any charges since he could of lost his job over it.

 

Would any one know of a good tuner in Albany NY?? This is my first Corvette and I have an issue with the idle.

 

Right On Roy! There is always two sides to every story as Roy stated. We tuners try very hard to please our customers due to the nature of our business. It only takes one unhappy customer and you know the rest.

Cheers,
Frank

 

What happened to MR.POLICEMAN? He's not so talkative all of a sudden . I'm glad that both sides were heard and it sounds like Mr.Cop was BSing all of us..

 

I wouldn't feel bad about having to do what you had to do Mike/Steve.

We had a deputy drive his car into the ditch in front of my inlaws land near Tomball. I could smell the alcohol from 10 feet away. He finally managed while stumbling drunk to get it out 5 mins before the cops showed up. As far as I know he got home that night with his job intact.

 

Glad to see the full story, nothing worse than a hodge podge of parts and trying to put it all together. Sounds like he should be glad it runs at all. Any chance you've gotten an opportunity to look for the stuff that MTI did the 2000 coupe I Pm'd you about??

 

I did not post any of these questions or the subsequent story of my dealings with Icon to argue. Everything I said was true. I depended on them to check the parts that were bought and make sure that they were quality, as I am not a professional. I left it in the hands of those I thought were professionals. I told them how much power I wanted on the onset. I bought parts that met the owner, Mike's guidelines on what he thought I needed. Once again I relied on his professional opinion. Speaking of which, I do not remember there being a Roy in the shop at the time. I dealt with Mike and Steve. I dropped off all the parts and they said that they would be sufficient for what I wanted. I have no reason to lie. I will not gain anything by lieing on this forum. I just want to let others know about their shady business practices. I am not the only one who has problems with these guys and I have a right as a customer to be upset, not pay for unauthorized work, get second opinions on service, and express my feelings in a civilized manner. Oh, and speaking of truth, there were no charges filed at any time. They did not get paid for the dyno because they would not allow me to witness the dyno even after weeks of me telling them to schedule in advance so I could be there. They supposedly did it and then told me afterwards. At the time of payment they failed to provide documentation of the dyno tune. They failed to provide their written warranty on service when I requested. They installed the gauges in the wrong place after being instructed not to do so. There are always excuses for these guys. Im also glad that these guys are so talkative now that someone is coming out with a complaint but could not return calls when the project was underway. There is other inacurate information and even blatent lies regarding the other side of the story. In the end your are going to believe whoever you want. I just wanted to set the story straight and hopefully keep some others from having to go through the same thing.

 

dang sounds like my highschool drama hahaha

very interesting to read all those posts actually.

carbonfibervette: off topic, but as a regular seller/buyer on Ebay, I have found to NEVER, EVER buy anything but completely brand new, out-of-the-box parts, or anything for that matter.

I'm not saying that was the problem in this circumstance, but just my piece of advice

 

Carbonfibervette why in the world would you buy all used parts and try to piece them together like some kind of puzzle without any knowledge. Maybe it's just me but that seems crazy!

 

 

Why would a reputable tuner accept the job to begin with... mistakes were certainly made on both sides in this case.

Part of running a profitable business is recognizing those you cannot afford to have as customers.