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Yes how do u like 4 feet of hose on your fuel line ? Apparently they didn’t get the hint yet to include a double female 1 inch to adapt from yet...And I still haven’t got mine as promised ...
Overall how do you like it ? I got the pro option and I love it ....I run full e85
Are those zip ties the power adding kind
Last edited by Speedy007; Oct 1, 2020 at 06:20 PM.
Any update on how this system is working out? Pros/cons for daily drivers? I've been interested for a while. Honestly though, 30ish hp for this price and minimal works sounds too good to be true. There continues to be a shortage of real-world usage and reviews of the AFD proflex setup on our cars. Currently my 03z is stock except for Kooks LT/xpipe/hi flo cats, CAI and a mail order tune. I'd definitely be interested in another decent bump in power without internal mods.
Any update on how this system is working out? Pros/cons for daily drivers? I've been interested for a while. Honestly though, 30ish hp for this price and minimal works sounds too good to be true. There continues to be a shortage of real-world usage and reviews of the AFD proflex setup on our cars. Currently my 03z is stock except for Kooks LT/xpipe/hi flo cats, CAI and a mail order tune. I'd definitely be interested in another decent bump in power without internal mods.
30 horsepower claim is very suspect. These engines are pretty "low strung"......not super high compression ratio, are not octane limited in power production on pump gas, so the idea that you can make a bunch of power on E85 on a stock-ish LS1 is suspect. Not to mention, this AFD kit only accounts for fueling....it does not and cannot add any spark advance etc.
With a 03Z, it would cheaper and easier to switch to a 2004 "P59" PCM which can run flex fuel natively, and is a much better solution. You have the ability to not only correct for E85 fueling, but add or remove spark advance, the ability to fine tune starting and cranking tables to help with E85 cold starts, etc etc. I have a 03Z, and am running this setup. I know i"m not gaining much, I did it mostly for fun, but also to benefit from the cooling effects of E85 on track, etc.
When I had header/intake setup, I was around 80% injector duty cycle if I remember correctly. You would want an injector upgrade at least, and maybe even a fuel pump upgrade if you had plans to further mod (cam, heads) down the road etc, as well as ensure your pump is 100% compatible with E85. Stock pumps aren't dying left and right from E85...but they also were not designed to run that way all the time.
I don't have the pro flex kit, but happy to help or answer any FF questions you might have!
I'm with Aaron, their claims are suspect. Don't mean to burst your bubble Speedy, but your math and statements are not quite right. It boils down to the chemistry of fuels and the higher octane rating for E85 which means being able to add more advance to get closer to MBT for knock-limited setups, such as boost setups or high compression engines. E85 roughly has 30% less energy density than pure gasoline, and requires about 30% more fuel (assuming it's mixed with same amount of air as before) to burn completely when compared to pure gasoline, so it nets about the same energy output for non-knock limited setups. Advantages really are added cooling effect on charge air which equals more power, and ability to run more timing which also equals more power but again ONLY on knock-limited setups/scenarios.
Correction: With same amount of air to compare and all other variables the same, to your point, E85 should make more power but by about 4%. Some math to illustrate my point. Gasoline has about 18,000BTU/lbs and E85 has 12,400 BTU/lbs. Gasoline burns completely with 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel, while E85 burns completely with 9.76 parts air to 1 part fuel. So, for the same amount of air, you can extract 1224 BTUs on gasoline vs. 1271 BTUs on E85.
I’m not solely into believing the other fundamentals and no other variables exist it might take 30% off the rip but in motion this 30% no longer exist ..until back at idle ...
The equation above was based off a 25% energy loss...really at the days end I’m not seeing a loss anywhere but at idle when the car is neither in motion or making power ...so again when your in motion variable change I will make 50
more hp at 2500 rpms then a 91 car therefore cutting down the time needed to throttle and costing distances also achieve greater distances not seeing your claim ....maybe in automatic cars but we can assume the same fuel will run in the same manner on a different transmission...clearly higher octanes burn cleaner and faster .....however given test through manual and automatic options automatic cars would suffer greatly a lot more then a manual car
Last edited by Speedy007; Oct 5, 2020 at 04:47 PM.
It's been shown countless times that on a non knock limited setup, going to race gas, or E85 or whatever.... minimal gains. I do think you see some small gains consistently with E85 due to the chemistry/stoichiometry as pointed out above.... that's been my understanding as well.
On the new mustangs, those engines are 12:1 stock and they have variable valve timing on both sets of cams. So they are able to to take advantage of E85, especially in the low/mid range rpm with some valve timing tweaking to increase DCR etc.....so yeah they see some pretty reasonable gains.
Can't say the same about a 10:1 5.7L OHV engine.
Not completely apples to apples for us, but LS based engine on pump gas vs E85. It's a 429ci motor that makes about 560whp. That's more or less the same power per cubic inch as a 450whp well bolted/cammed LS1/6. And it only made single digit more hp and tq. Barely above margin of error of a dyno.
I would love if my NA E85 setup made gobs of power...just being realistic here lol.
I hate to hurts your bubble but e85 actually burns quite fully around 1.03 lambda 1.04 we have brought it to 1.38 and 1.47 still in the 15-16 ranges so.. even at a 1.0 which btw my car can run all the way through it’s dam pcm mapping which if I would like to see the results up close I will share because like i said . .85 or so is only needed short a split spike to keep up rotation or proper propelling how u like to refer motion forces and resistance to .....love this topic because why so many under mind e85 because no one has really gave it any though past it chemical btu values lol
again we are adding video’s of straight Wot pull amd there’s no data that resembles road coasting and actual driving .....and the thing is a bossed up 427 gas guzzler to begin with lol ....I don’t tap out my 60lb injectors not nearly so why is this guy tapping out 127lb injector @ 567? I clearly go 200hp above a 429 is it don’t sound right a 429 shoulda made 700 on pump gas and a smooth 770 on e85 easily
and here’s what I run some 30+ percent above that common people your just not making any dam sense anymore to anything people are tuning yes they make it run I’m not saying they don’t or not saying anything what is they do and what is I do along with my people are two clearly different views and I just say I have the better results to match
I should prob go throw in some booster today and make it 100% and still yet still I won’t even come close to losing my fueling on 60’s or hitting lean .....and maybe just maybe I pick up another 25 hp or so on that ....and still cranks out 18 mpg around town with happy smiles
maybe it’s because all my ***** done in imperial
and We can’t say for sure what adjustments were made in that video could have been a simple afr forced change from 14.7 to 10.1 is maybe were people go wrong I’m not saying that’s it but I have my afr untouched 14.7 why because this is the engines afr ratio run point so I can only assume because people are running super duper rich because they have touched the main afr and then adjusted again for that fuel...leading to double work can’t say for sure but ...might be the underlying condition to all the confusion...
What about evap time may we continue ? Fuel vapor ect...fuel vapor is where **** got really interesting with ogle ,pogue ect....people often rant on about things they have no idea of how to capture it’s one thing to barely get started and it’s efficient enough and another to reap every last benefit ....
Last edited by Speedy007; Oct 5, 2020 at 06:13 PM.
I hate to hurts your bubble but e85 actually burns quite fully around 1.03 lambda 1.04 we have brought it to 1.38 and 1.47 still in the 15-16 ranges so.. even at a 1.0 which btw my car can run all the way through it’s dam pcm mapping which if I would like to see the results up close I will share because like i said . .85 or so is only needed short a split spike to keep up rotation or proper propelling how u like to refer motion forces and resistance to .....love this topic because why so many under mind e85 because no one has really gave it any though past it chemical btu values lol
again we are adding video’s of straight Wot pull amd there’s no data that resembles road coasting and actual driving .....and the thing is a bossed up 427 gas guzzler to begin with lol ....I don’t tap out my 60lb injectors not nearly so why is this guy tapping out 127lb injector @ 567? I clearly go 200hp above a 429 is it don’t sound right a 429 shoulda made 700 on pump gas and a smooth 770 on e85 easily
and here’s what I run some 30+ percent above that common people your just not making any dam sense anymore to anything people are tuning yes they make it run I’m not saying they don’t or not saying anything what is they do and what is I do along with my people are two clearly different views and I just say I have the better results to match
I should prob go throw in some booster today and make it 100% and still yet still I won’t even come close to losing my fueling on 60’s or hitting lean .....and maybe just maybe I pick up another 25 hp or so on that ....and still cranks out 18 mpg around town with happy smiles
maybe it’s because all my ***** done in imperial
and We can’t say for sure what adjustments were made in that video could have been a simple afr forced change from 14.7 to 10.1 is maybe were people go wrong I’m not saying that’s it but I have my afr untouched 14.7 why because this is the engines afr ratio run point so I can only assume because people are running super duper rich because they have touched the main afr and then adjusted again for that fuel...leading to double work can’t say for sure but ...might be the underlying condition to all the confusion...
What about evap time may we continue ? Fuel vapor ect...fuel vapor is where **** got really interesting with ogle ,pogue ect....people often rant on about things they have no idea of how to capture it’s one thing to barely get started and it’s efficient enough and another to reap every last benefit ....
What sort of power are you making on the 60lb injectors? Tapping out the 127lb injectors, in your previous comment, could simply be a lack of fuel pump supply flow.
I traditionally target: .92 - 1.07 lambda at idle (camshaft and setup dependent, have seen some that take a leaner idle).
Similar with cruising, sometimes can get a bit leaner for a low load setup, up to 1.10 lambda.
Peak power target depends upon how much boost pressure, ignition system, and intercooler/turbo efficiency (IAT). Usually a .74, in extreme examples to .88 for the other end of the spectrum at full throttle.
Last edited by niterydr; Oct 19, 2020 at 08:39 AM.
I have dyno support to 1349 before the dyno is unable to log power estimate total 1489 to 1535
So everything from 1349 at 5300 ish to 7100 wasn’t captured all we could see was the spike was still climbing....through the tuneing side of the log power didn’t show its drop or dip or some say as flattening power point where the cam had no more to offer ...we never saw this flat dipping point
Tapping out those size injectors based off my duty cycle is only bxt 16& 19 % I’m only using a 255 58psi jet pump hot wired with a #700 wire kit ...haven’t come close to maximum fuel flow just ran out of engine and boost to make anything more ....Just a side note I had bought a boost a pump as well figuring al the war stories about e85 ...it was best to be prepared...2 years later it has remains in the box and package not opened....so just I dont see where someone is properly using 127 lbs to really 133lbs of fuel per/h given its running at 58psi ...I used all imperial work not metric or the other one in there maybe the break down helps can’t speak for how others have tuned just myself
Last edited by Speedy007; Oct 19, 2020 at 01:26 PM.
I have dyno support to 1349 before the dyno is unable to log power estimate total 1489 to 1535
So everything from 1349 at 5300 ish to 7100 wasn’t captured all we could see was the spike was still climbing....through the tuneing side of the log power didn’t show its drop or dip or some say as flattening power point where the cam had no more to offer ...we never saw this flat dipping point
Tapping out those size injectors based off my duty cycle is only bxt 16& 19 % I’m only using a 255 58psi jet pump hot wired with a #700 wire kit ...haven’t come close to maximum fuel flow just ran out of engine and boost to make anything more ....Just a side note I had bought a boost a pump as well figuring al the war stories about e85 ...it was best to be prepared...2 years later it has remains in the box and package not opened....so just I dont see where someone is properly using 127 lbs to really 133lbs of fuel per/h given its running at 58psi ...I used all imperial work not metric or the other one in there maybe the break down helps can’t speak for how others have tuned just myself
I have dyno support to 1349 before the dyno is unable to log power estimate total 1489 to 1535
So everything from 1349 at 5300 ish to 7100 wasn’t captured all we could see was the spike was still climbing....through the tuneing side of the log power didn’t show its drop or dip or some say as flattening power point where the cam had no more to offer ...we never saw this flat dipping point
Tapping out those size injectors based off my duty cycle is only bxt 16& 19 % I’m only using a 255 58psi jet pump hot wired with a #700 wire kit ...haven’t come close to maximum fuel flow just ran out of engine and boost to make anything more ....Just a side note I had bought a boost a pump as well figuring al the war stories about e85 ...it was best to be prepared...2 years later it has remains in the box and package not opened....so just I dont see where someone is properly using 127 lbs to really 133lbs of fuel per/h given its running at 58psi ...I used all imperial work not metric or the other one in there maybe the break down helps can’t speak for how others have tuned just myself
You're claiming 1349 whp with 60lb injectors? Are you using 16 of them? I'm assuming that is a typo.
Twin Walbro 255 pumps hardwired tap out around 1000whp on E85 at the quoted fuel pressures you are stating (and that is pushing it), even less if you have a bottleneck in the supply line, voltage drop, need additional fueling due to poor cooling, or are running higher than the 58psi baseline (assuming you are boosted).
What's the motor and induction setup?
Maybe you're just trolling. Keep that crap to Facebook then.
Last edited by niterydr; Oct 20, 2020 at 09:03 AM.
& let me just say say & it never busted into speed density until u climb down low on it real hard so ....for me it’s as easy as hitting a reset to back it out of blow off your doors density....kinda like a on the spot reflash/ turbo mode lol Terminal X mode :vader:
Lol could be twin 255’’s hot wired in hahah u know my boys at the shop take care of me we’ve prob hit 58psi and above hahah that’s why my tuner just gave up couldn’t get past proflex....and I had to actually solve most of the idle stuffs I’m sure they did their part and Like I said were only tapping 16& 19 % duty cycle .....prob I am assuming 3 bar maybe 3.5 bar FuelRewards hahah ...Prob need to get a 5 bar map something able to scale 2bar to 5bar
Finally the night Ryder actually points out why the car is able to fuel it something that a newbie has brought to the attention of those who were alongside the build from the get years ago this guy pointed out right off the wack lol two thumbs up ...
Back to proflex sorry for the hi jack
Last edited by Speedy007; Oct 20, 2020 at 01:32 PM.
Been running E85 since installing the ProFlex kit on my mostly stock Z. I run a 93 Octane Diablo Diablew tune and full E85. I haven't had any problems at all with this kit took me 30 min to install. I think they did a great job designing this for the c5. This is my fun nice weather car so it took about 2 weeks to get to the full 85% ( $1.58 per gal ) My Z is only street driven no drags no racetrack just fun driving on nice days. One word would be AWESOME Night and Day difference to me. instant power and traction reducer add on kit. E85 Fuel lines
How did you guys 'mount' the ethanol sensor? I ended up reusing the factory steel braided fuel line and zip tied the sensor to a coil pack. With the two supplied fuel lines, there didn't seem to be a good spot to mount it and they were long enough to be too close to the exhaust manifold for my liking... I'm not really satisfied how it is now:
