Cold Air Intake data is here!
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by EB20003
I see people going from other intakes to Vararam and getting better performance results.
.......But I never see anyone going from the Vararam to another intake and getting better performance results. Especially the Blackwing.
Has ANYONE HERE gone from the Vararam to the Blackwing and gotten better performance results than they got with the Vararam?
.......But I never see anyone going from the Vararam to another intake and getting better performance results. Especially the Blackwing.
Has ANYONE HERE gone from the Vararam to the Blackwing and gotten better performance results than they got with the Vararam?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,269
Likes: 50
From: Dallas Texas
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'09-'10
Dang, I love it! The debate goes on.... "Cold Air vs Ram Air". I don't know which is more fun, reading the Thermostat/ Radiator/ Temperature threads or the ones on Intake Air. One thing is for sure, you can't make anything cooler than ambient unless you use some sort of refrigerating device. Be it mechanical or evaporative.
Last edited by sxeC7; Jun 3, 2005 at 11:38 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by sxe60
Dang, I love it! The debate goes on.... "Cold Air vs Ram Air". I don't know which is more fun, reading the Thermostat/ Radiator/ Temperature threads or the ones on Intake Air. One thing is for sure, you can't make anything cooler than ambient unless you use some sort of refrigerating device. Be it mechanical or evaporative.: yesnod:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,269
Likes: 50
From: Dallas Texas
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'09-'10
Originally Posted by Korreck
Damn George. That makes two of us. I've been saying you need a refrigerator to get this so called cold air.
Bob, I guess we have to take up where E-T left off. I think he got tired of trying to get the message across, but people (wantabes as he calls 'em) keep the urban myths alive.
I love the comment about airscoops reducing the frontal area. If that was the case, why not make the whole front end a big scoop. The only problem would be that it would compress the incoming air and generate heating, but think of the Ram effect you would get.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by sxe60
Bob, I guess we have to take up where E-T left off. I think he got tired of trying to get the message across, but people (wantabes as he calls 'em) keep the urban myths alive. I love the comment about airscoops reducing the frontal area. If that was the case, why not make the whole front end a big scoop. The only problem would be that it would compress the incoming air and generate heating, but think of the Ram effect you would get.
I love the comment about airscoops reducing the frontal area. If that was the case, why not make the whole front end a big scoop. The only problem would be that it would compress the incoming air and generate heating, but think of the Ram effect you would get. Thanks for the chuckle George. Check out the drag section. It's getting almost as bad, I think I may follow in E T's footsteps.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,960
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From: Issaquah Wa.
Originally Posted by MagRed_00
Great info!! It do wonder if you opened up the vents in the front facia if this would have an effect on a stock like setup. I know is won't be as good as a vararam or trap, but I wonder if it could at least reduce the heat soak. Is there any easy way of doing this with the tools you have Dave68?
actually you do not have to compleatly remove the schroud, drilling three eights or half inch holes, as many as you feel is right for your aplication will do some good 
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by vetred
Its ideal with the "twin-flow" model and yes it does work actually you do not have to compleatly remove the schroud, drilling three eights or half inch holes, as many as you feel is right for your aplication will do some good
actually you do not have to compleatly remove the schroud, drilling three eights or half inch holes, as many as you feel is right for your aplication will do some good 
I considered doing that but I think cutting the shroud is a better way to go.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,269
Likes: 50
From: Dallas Texas
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'09-'10
Originally Posted by Korreck
He implies he's an engineer! Amazing. You've got a good idea there George. One big scoop. Thanks for the chuckle George. Check out the drag section. It's getting almost as bad, I think I may follow in E T's footsteps.
Thanks for the chuckle George. Check out the drag section. It's getting almost as bad, I think I may follow in E T's footsteps. Wow! I checked the Drag Race Forum. Some big ego talk there.
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Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,031
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by sxe60
Bob, I guess we have to take up where E-T left off. I think he got tired of trying to get the message across, but people (wantabes as he calls 'em) keep the urban myths alive. I love the comment about airscoops reducing the frontal area. If that was the case, why not make the whole front end a big scoop. The only problem would be that it would compress the incoming air and generate heating, but think of the Ram effect you would get.
I love the comment about airscoops reducing the frontal area. If that was the case, why not make the whole front end a big scoop. The only problem would be that it would compress the incoming air and generate heating, but think of the Ram effect you would get.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,031
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by Korreck
He implies he's an engineer! Amazing. You've got a good idea there George. One big scoop. Thanks for the chuckle George. Check out the drag section. It's getting almost as bad, I think I may follow in E T's footsteps.
Thanks for the chuckle George. Check out the drag section. It's getting almost as bad, I think I may follow in E T's footsteps. I'm glad that you are amused so easily.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by 2000BSME
Oh my goodness, one big scoop? Think jet-engine intake. Amazing that they dont put a big front end, and radiator shroud in front of the intake of a jet engine.
I'm glad that you are amused so easily.
I'm glad that you are amused so easily.
Not only amusing, but hilarious.
I don't know squat about jet engines. I do know the front, or intake is much larger at the front. I also know they don't have a radiator. And again, they do have a shroud. Hello, anybody home?
I do have design experience on the 747, 757, 777, F16, F15, F18 and C130 to name a few. And you? You want to dicuss aircraft this isn't the right forum.
Last edited by Korreck; Jun 6, 2005 at 09:25 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,031
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by Korreck
You posted "Any time you reduce the effective frontal area of a car, say, by adding air scoops".
Not only amusing, but hilarious.
I don't know squat about jet engines. I do know the front, or intake is much larger at the front. I also know they don't have a radiator. And again, they do have a shroud. Hello, anybody home?
I do have design experience on the 747, 757, 777, F16, F15, F18 and C130 to name a few. And you? You want to dicuss aircraft this isn't the right forum.
Not only amusing, but hilarious.
I don't know squat about jet engines. I do know the front, or intake is much larger at the front. I also know they don't have a radiator. And again, they do have a shroud. Hello, anybody home?
I do have design experience on the 747, 757, 777, F16, F15, F18 and C130 to name a few. And you? You want to dicuss aircraft this isn't the right forum.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,031
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by sxe60
Bob, I guess we have to take up where E-T left off. I think he got tired of trying to get the message across, but people (wantabes as he calls 'em) keep the urban myths alive. I love the comment about airscoops reducing the frontal area. If that was the case, why not make the whole front end a big scoop. The only problem would be that it would compress the incoming air and generate heating, but think of the Ram effect you would get.
I love the comment about airscoops reducing the frontal area. If that was the case, why not make the whole front end a big scoop. The only problem would be that it would compress the incoming air and generate heating, but think of the Ram effect you would get. Real smart. Go get 'em with that....
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by 2000BSME
Same logic as the comedians who suggest we make airplanes out of the same material as the "blackbox" so that they survive crashes.
Real smart. Go get 'em with that....
Real smart. Go get 'em with that....
You are also confused in regards to a black box. A black box is any box containing electronics. They are not designed to survive crashes. The crash boxes are. I'm in the industry, remember?
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
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Originally Posted by Korreck
You posted "Like I said, I'm glad that you are easily amused. Much like my 6 year old. " Let me give you some good advice. Don't ever grow up. You'll enjoy life more.
You are also confused in regards to a black box. A black box is any box containing electronics. They are not designed to survive crashes. The crash boxes are. I'm in the industry, remember?
You are also confused in regards to a black box. A black box is any box containing electronics. They are not designed to survive crashes. The crash boxes are. I'm in the industry, remember?
I hope I am already all "grown up", 'cause if I add any more height to my 6'8" frame, I'll be hurtin' to ride in my 'vette.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
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From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by 2000BSME
What are you talking about? Everyone in the United States knows exactly what a "blackbox" refers to in the aftermath of an airplane crash.
I hope I am already all "grown up", 'cause if I add any more height to my 6'8" frame, I'll be hurtin' to ride in my 'vette.
I hope I am already all "grown up", 'cause if I add any more height to my 6'8" frame, I'll be hurtin' to ride in my 'vette.
Let me try one more time. All boxes containing electronics are black boxes. Design engineers like myself that design this stuff specialize in what's called E/M Packaging. Don't confuse that with a cardboard box.
Black box is a generic term defined by engineers, industry and the miilitary. News people have mis-informed the public to some degree. This is going nowhere and is slightly off subject. If you want more info PM me.
Glad you took my advice and decided to quit growing.
Last edited by Korreck; Jun 6, 2005 at 12:51 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,269
Likes: 50
From: Dallas Texas
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'09-'10
How did this thread get from "cold air intake data" to "black boxes"? Bob, your correct about "black boxes" being a generic term in the Aircraft Industry for any unit containing electronic equipment. I think 2000BSME is refering to Flight Data Recorders which are in that sense black boxes.
As for scoops on aircraft, especially jets, common logic doesn't prevail. That's why the famous NASA scoop was invented, since scoops protruding into the airstream were ineffective. Aerodynamics is a Black Art understood by only a few. For that reason aircraft and auto manufacturers spend big money on wind tunnel testing.
As for scoops on aircraft, especially jets, common logic doesn't prevail. That's why the famous NASA scoop was invented, since scoops protruding into the airstream were ineffective. Aerodynamics is a Black Art understood by only a few. For that reason aircraft and auto manufacturers spend big money on wind tunnel testing.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,640
Likes: 0
From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by sxe60
How did this thread get from "cold air intake data" to "black boxes"? Bob, your correct about "black boxes" being a generic term in the Aircraft Industry for any unit containing electronic equipment. I think 2000BSME is refering to Flight Data Recorders which are in that sense black boxes.
As for scoops on aircraft, especially jets, common logic doesn't prevail. That's why the famous NASA scoop was invented, since scoops protruding into the airstream were ineffective. Aerodynamics is a Black Art understood by only a few. For that reason aircraft and auto manufacturers spend big money on wind tunnel testing.
As for scoops on aircraft, especially jets, common logic doesn't prevail. That's why the famous NASA scoop was invented, since scoops protruding into the airstream were ineffective. Aerodynamics is a Black Art understood by only a few. For that reason aircraft and auto manufacturers spend big money on wind tunnel testing.
I see you have a little aircraft yourself. I've been at this 35 yrs now. If I get back to Lockheed (formerly GD) I'll let you know and we'll get together.
