Plz check out the following link and share with the rest of us, what you think. Everyone reads and understands things differently. So, Please do share your views and feedback...

Enjoy

http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

 

That's funny Vette Fan. I've been posting that along with http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm.

All of the Vararam boys will ignore this study. I've had one guy thank me for the info. Guys like EB20003 and shurite44 will never admit they run an inferior filter. Worse yet, they're running a foam filter.

Good luck on this post. You'll have trouble keeping it on track as they'll want to turn this into another CAI war.

 

I don't see anything wrong. Basically the test says O.E. Type filter gets the most dirt but has the highest resistance to air flow ( DOH ) . The K&N allows more air in therefore more dirt ( Double DOH ) . In real life this means : If you want to let more air into your engine there will also be an increase in the amount of dust particules that make it through. I am fine with that. It is an inherent risk you take. And it is not like you are going to drive your car through a dust storm. You want to let more air in to be able to burn more fuel and thus make more power. I have learnt that everything in life is about comprimises this is just another example.

 

Well stated.

 

Were you and V8 aware of the filter short comings before this post? Do you think the filter is sufficient for a daily driver?

 

doing it's job??and is it worth keeping on the car?i don't go thru dust storms,don't drive in rain if i don't have to,and so on.all i want is to get better flow and stay "clean" !Also,i don't want a sermon either!!! is it working or not!?

 

Comparing the K&N to Delco, so how much extra HP do you think that you gain by the K&N? How about less than 1%!! So is it worth 3-4 HP to put your engine at risk? Just change your stock filter often and you will be fine. Just my opinion.

 

Interesting article, although it does only back up what would be logical assumptions.

Personally, I don't think paper filters are half as bad as some people claim. A test I've performed (although not scientific), is to simply remove the filter from the air box and run the car round the block. I've tried this and 3 or so different cars and have noticed little or no difference in each case. An increase in induction noise and a slightly more crisp throttle response maybe but not any real SOTP increase. As I said not scientific but a test non the less. (However I do except that more noise and better throttle response can often be mistaken for more power and faster accelaration).

On some cars I do however beleive after market kits can produce more power, but I think this is more due to loaction and plumbing and better flow/intake abilities of the new setup as opposed to the filter itself.


One thing I'd like to know though, is according to that test the K&N lets a lot more dust into the engine. How much more dust over an OEM filter will be enough to cause a problem.

There must be a performance envelope where it will make next to no odds on engine durability or performance. I would like to know which filters fall inside this category or not.

As there will be two sides to it.

1. The K&N lets in more dust which will eventually cause promblems

2. The K&N lets in more dust but not to an extent that it will cause any problems.

If number 1 is correct then if you plan on keeping the car and doing lots of miles a OEM paper filter would probably be the safer option.

However if number 2 is the more accurate statement then why not run the better flowing filter to at least allow for greater airflow on a modified engine without adversly affecting engine life.

 

As stated above most of us aren't driving down dusty roads on a normal basis. If you look at the study there actually flowing dirt particles into the filter material. The last time I checked my hood was closed and there was a rubber seal that added at least an extra 5 hp! It's your car do whatever the hell you want with it.

 

Ive been running K&N on my other cars for years.
After seeing the results of this test (a few times now) I went with the Wix and the zip tie mod for the Vet. I cant afford any internal engine damage, dirty sensors,engine codes etc..., or take away from its longevity.
Next mod: one of those 5HP hood seals

 

I did not see anywhere in the study at what MPH the tests are done.

there is reference that there is benefit if their trucks were "supermodified" but we don't know from the results what supermodified means and how it applies to us.

So to me it sounds like the test is not relative to someone who uses a K&N or Vararam foam filter for higher performance driving like over 100 MPH

 

Im kinda lost... We all drive our cars over 100 every once in a while. Some do more, some less...But I believe all of us, who own Corvettes drive them at 100 sometimes. I also believe that most of us don't use our cars at the *Track ONLY*. Meaning - we drive our cars regularly too, AND sometimes spirited or on track. Having said that, What REDGAR is saying, how does that make any sense at all ? Not to start a flame, but I don't get it? It IS RELATIVE to MOST of us. It may not be relative to someone who drives their car for higher performance at track only (as you said). But driving over a 100 does not mean you're driving for a higher performance... Heck, we do it all the time (don't we) (I know we're not suppose to say that, but we know the truth).

Anyways, getting back to the filters. If this study is as scientific, where does that leave filters like Blackwing? Blackwing, Halteck are not really intake systems IMHO (maybe kinda), I think they are just LARGE, expensive filters that are supposed to give better air flow & decent filteration. SO, won't they fall in the same category as the K&N..? (Foam filters, I don't even wanna think abt them) mmmmm... something to think about...

 

Very nice study, refreshing to finally see real data for a change.

The only thing I don't like is they have the composition of the dust in particle size, and they show the efficience of the filter as the gm s (I am assuming that means grams?). I would prefer to see efficiency at set particle sizes.

I do not know which particle sizes are important, but I am sure there is a size, below which, the particle has zero impact on the enginer at all and is a don't care.

So, if one filter flows better but let's small particles below a 'don't care' size through...it really doesn't matter.

I'd like to see this data.

I work in the IC industry, and we use HEPA filters in our fabs. You can get specs on filter efficiency by particle size. That's what's really critical. Not the total mass of dust that makes it through.

JMHO.

 

dam, now where do i find a delco the same size & shape of my K&N???

 

No offense, but those secondary filters all look more or less the same whether it is a KN or stocker replacement. A few shades either way, but this isn't a closed labratory test either.

 

Well, this pretty much mirrors what I've been saying all along. Having worked in the filtration industry for several years all this is pretty well understood by folks who do filtration for a living...

This goes along the same line as why don't you run a car with open pipes. After all, the stock Ti exhaust is a 5-7HP restriction on a stock car. If you run a car with no filter at all you could pick up a couple of HP over a zip tied airbox and a stock paper filter. I mean if you pul the exhaust off your car and run open element you could probably pick up 15-20 HP over stock...

But you say "I don't drive down dusty roads, or in a dust storm". Well, thats great and all but the simple fact of the matter is that much of the fine particulate out there is basically a fine stone dust (think of it as fine grit sandpaper. The net effect is that it is just wearing down the rings and cylinder walls and filling the motor with trash.

Like I said, if it isn't an issue, then run no filter. I mean honestly if that last .01 is a big deal then take a panty hose and stretch it over your airbox when you go to the track to keep the big stuff out and put your filter in for the drive home.

If dust isn't a concern, look at what it does in a accelerated environment (like a mine or step back to something as simple as an OTR truck). You won't find K&N's or oiled foam on big rigs as the primary filter. There is a reason for that... Its not economically feasible to have to rebuild a diesel for the small gain a "high flow" filter might gain you over keeping the incoming aircharge clean and the cylinders sealed over lots of air, and ruined cylinders with tons of blow by...

 

On an otherwise mostly stock C5, you would not notice any difference running around the block. However, if you enter a freeway (for example) and then floor it, you will feel a difference, and you can almost measure it in the time it will take to get to redline in third gear (my own unscientific air-intake performance test).

 

Air flow and air temperature are two different things my friend.

 

That's right. We're discussing filters.

 

yeah sorry, my idea of block probably is slightly different to some one in the USA.

When I go round the block it usually take 10-15 mins depending on route and will have straights where in a Vette I'd be well over the ton, fast corners, slow corners. Trailing throttle - basically a good work out.

A admit I never did this test with a Vette though.