Blackwing Installed - Erratic Idle
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh NC
Steve,
The length of the blackwing assembly is controlled by the flexible coupler that comes with the 2001 and up's. The flexible material goes between the blackwing and the MAF, so cutting the hard snout piece of the blackwing unit won't shorten up the assembly any, at least if I understand you correctly. I did try to get it to seat lower and connect the grommets to the airbridge.
Ed
The length of the blackwing assembly is controlled by the flexible coupler that comes with the 2001 and up's. The flexible material goes between the blackwing and the MAF, so cutting the hard snout piece of the blackwing unit won't shorten up the assembly any, at least if I understand you correctly. I did try to get it to seat lower and connect the grommets to the airbridge.
Ed
Originally Posted by Steve04Z06
Don't give up, try this...
I had trouble with the Blackwing on my '03. It would sometimes die if I pushed the clutch in at freeway speeds, and it idled rough. The problem was I had a leak after the MAF that was only showing up with the hood closed. No codes, just a crappy idle and it would sometimes die.
What I found was the air bridge grommets didn't seat down all the way into the two posts that stick up, one on either side of the air bridge, and when the hood was closed it was pushing down on the air bridge, creating an air leak after the MAF. That raises hell with the computer.
I finally figured out that the snout of the Blackwing was simply too long.
So I marked it, and took a hack saw and carefully cut off about 1/4 inch of the Blackwing inlet snout and it bolted up just fine after that. There was still plenty of snout to mount the coupler to, and the air bridge grommets seated all the way down on the posts.
Voila! No more problems!
When I bought my '04, the first thing I did was buy a blackwing, and sure enough, it didn't fit right either. I knew what to look for with this one, and I could tell I had the same problem when the two air bridge grommets didn't seat down all the way onto the pegs. So I cut 1/4" off the inlet snout of the Blackwing and VOILA! It fit like a glove.
So check to see if the air bridge grommets are seated all the way down, and if they aren't, you might want to try my mod.
If you do this, make sure to stuff a bunch of rags inside the blackwing so you don't get any filings down in there. You don't want plastic particles in your intake.
Make sure you cut evenly and don't cut off too much! 1/4" should do.
Good luck.
I had trouble with the Blackwing on my '03. It would sometimes die if I pushed the clutch in at freeway speeds, and it idled rough. The problem was I had a leak after the MAF that was only showing up with the hood closed. No codes, just a crappy idle and it would sometimes die.
What I found was the air bridge grommets didn't seat down all the way into the two posts that stick up, one on either side of the air bridge, and when the hood was closed it was pushing down on the air bridge, creating an air leak after the MAF. That raises hell with the computer.
I finally figured out that the snout of the Blackwing was simply too long.
So I marked it, and took a hack saw and carefully cut off about 1/4 inch of the Blackwing inlet snout and it bolted up just fine after that. There was still plenty of snout to mount the coupler to, and the air bridge grommets seated all the way down on the posts.
Voila! No more problems!
When I bought my '04, the first thing I did was buy a blackwing, and sure enough, it didn't fit right either. I knew what to look for with this one, and I could tell I had the same problem when the two air bridge grommets didn't seat down all the way onto the pegs. So I cut 1/4" off the inlet snout of the Blackwing and VOILA! It fit like a glove.
So check to see if the air bridge grommets are seated all the way down, and if they aren't, you might want to try my mod.
If you do this, make sure to stuff a bunch of rags inside the blackwing so you don't get any filings down in there. You don't want plastic particles in your intake.
Make sure you cut evenly and don't cut off too much! 1/4" should do.
Good luck.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 51
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Originally Posted by 82shark
Steve,
The length of the blackwing assembly is controlled by the flexible coupler that comes with the 2001 and up's. The flexible material goes between the blackwing and the MAF, so cutting the hard snout piece of the blackwing unit won't shorten up the assembly any, at least if I understand you correctly. I did try to get it to seat lower and connect the grommets to the airbridge.
Ed
The length of the blackwing assembly is controlled by the flexible coupler that comes with the 2001 and up's. The flexible material goes between the blackwing and the MAF, so cutting the hard snout piece of the blackwing unit won't shorten up the assembly any, at least if I understand you correctly. I did try to get it to seat lower and connect the grommets to the airbridge.
Ed
I think you're talking about the throttle body. The (factory) flexible (accordian style) coupler attaches between the throttle body and the air bridge. I'm talking about the other end (bottom) of the air bridge where the MAF and Blackwing meet.
In my case the MAF was butted right up against the Blackwing inlet, keeping the air brigde grommets from seating down all the way. When I shortened the Blackwing inlet snout, that shortened the distance betwen the bottom of the air bridge and the Blackwing, allowing the air bridge grommets to seat down all the way.
If your grommets aren't seated down all the way, I think that's the problem.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh NC
Steve,
The 2001's and up come with a flexible coupler between the MAF and the Blackwing unit itself. Cutting the hard plastic snout piece on the blackwing won't shorten the overall length. Cutting the flexible coupler would. Shortening the hard plastic snout of the blackwing would only give you less hard material to tighten down the hose clamps onto. I may do that though, cutting the flexible coupler an 1" or so shorter.
Ed
The 2001's and up come with a flexible coupler between the MAF and the Blackwing unit itself. Cutting the hard plastic snout piece on the blackwing won't shorten the overall length. Cutting the flexible coupler would. Shortening the hard plastic snout of the blackwing would only give you less hard material to tighten down the hose clamps onto. I may do that though, cutting the flexible coupler an 1" or so shorter.
Ed
Originally Posted by Steve04Z06
Hi Ed.
I think you're talking about the throttle body. The (factory) flexible (accordian style) coupler attaches between the throttle body and the air bridge. I'm talking about the other end (bottom) of the air bridge where the MAF and Blackwing meet.
In my case the MAF was butted right up against the Blackwing inlet, keeping the air brigde grommets from seating down all the way. When I shortened the Blackwing inlet snout, that shortened the distance betwen the bottom of the air bridge and the Blackwing, allowing the air bridge grommets to seat down all the way.
If your grommets aren't seated down all the way, I think that's the problem.
I think you're talking about the throttle body. The (factory) flexible (accordian style) coupler attaches between the throttle body and the air bridge. I'm talking about the other end (bottom) of the air bridge where the MAF and Blackwing meet.
In my case the MAF was butted right up against the Blackwing inlet, keeping the air brigde grommets from seating down all the way. When I shortened the Blackwing inlet snout, that shortened the distance betwen the bottom of the air bridge and the Blackwing, allowing the air bridge grommets to seat down all the way.
If your grommets aren't seated down all the way, I think that's the problem.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 51
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Hey Ed,
My Blackwing literature says it's for 1997-2002 Corvette C5, and my Z is an '04.
The Blackwing I bought doesn't use a flexible coupler between the MAF and the Blackwing. It's a hard rubber piece that looks much like a plumbing part you would buy at Home Depot. One end fits over the MAF and the other end goes over the Blackwing, but it's not flexible.
Here's a pic...
<img>http://members.***.net/steven52/DSC03170.JPG<\img>
And again, I don't know what yours looks like, but with the rubber piece off, you could see that my MAF snout is butted right up against the Blackwing snout. It simply would not allow the air bridge grommets (pic below) to seat down all the way until I cut 1/4" off the Blackwing inlet snout. The MAF still butts right up against the Blackwing inlet snout, but the grommets now seat down all the way.
<img>http://members.***.net/steven52/DSC03169.JPG</img>
If yours has an accordian piece down there, then it's different from mine and I don't know what you can do to make it fit.
My Blackwing literature says it's for 1997-2002 Corvette C5, and my Z is an '04.
The Blackwing I bought doesn't use a flexible coupler between the MAF and the Blackwing. It's a hard rubber piece that looks much like a plumbing part you would buy at Home Depot. One end fits over the MAF and the other end goes over the Blackwing, but it's not flexible.
Here's a pic...
<img>http://members.***.net/steven52/DSC03170.JPG<\img>
And again, I don't know what yours looks like, but with the rubber piece off, you could see that my MAF snout is butted right up against the Blackwing snout. It simply would not allow the air bridge grommets (pic below) to seat down all the way until I cut 1/4" off the Blackwing inlet snout. The MAF still butts right up against the Blackwing inlet snout, but the grommets now seat down all the way.
<img>http://members.***.net/steven52/DSC03169.JPG</img>
If yours has an accordian piece down there, then it's different from mine and I don't know what you can do to make it fit.
Last edited by Steve04Z06; Sep 10, 2005 at 11:57 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh NC
Thanks Steve,
Thats pretty much like mine. That rubber piece is a "little" flexible, but I see your point. I didn't realize the back of the MAF was actually touching the blackwing snout. I'll check it in the morning.
Ed
Thats pretty much like mine. That rubber piece is a "little" flexible, but I see your point. I didn't realize the back of the MAF was actually touching the blackwing snout. I'll check it in the morning.
Ed
Originally Posted by Steve04Z06
Ed,
Looks like my images didn't work, but if you copy and paste the url into a browser, you should be able to view them. Let me know if you cant...
Looks like my images didn't work, but if you copy and paste the url into a browser, you should be able to view them. Let me know if you cant...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 5
From: Plainfield, IL
I was driving around last night with my now back to stock air box and now im really starting to feel the loss of power from going to blackwing to stock air box. I guess the computer is now learning the stock setup again. I can really feel the loss at midrange RPM's it seems that the car is literally starving for more air. I really wish I knew what it is that the car does not like about the blackwing. Since its easy to swap maybe I will try the blackwing one more time.
Just out of curiousity, say the blackwing is 100% sealed and installed correctly with no air leaks or seal issues. What could it be that is causing the car to surge on deceleration and my choppy idle? The only thing I can think of is the travel of air over the MAF is not correct. I still had the screen in mine and I was pretty sure thats what straightens out air flow over the sensors.
Anymore input?
Just out of curiousity, say the blackwing is 100% sealed and installed correctly with no air leaks or seal issues. What could it be that is causing the car to surge on deceleration and my choppy idle? The only thing I can think of is the travel of air over the MAF is not correct. I still had the screen in mine and I was pretty sure thats what straightens out air flow over the sensors.
Anymore input?
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Advanced
Joined: Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by 82shark
Thanks Steve,
Thats pretty much like mine. That rubber piece is a "little" flexible, but I see your point. I didn't realize the back of the MAF was actually touching the blackwing snout. I'll check it in the morning.
Ed
Thats pretty much like mine. That rubber piece is a "little" flexible, but I see your point. I didn't realize the back of the MAF was actually touching the blackwing snout. I'll check it in the morning.
Ed
Yeah, this problem had me chasing my tail for awhile. I even went so far as to cut the rubber piece between the MAF and Blackwing shorter, thinking it was the problem, but that wasn't it. I didn't want to believe the Blackwing was too long either, but as soon as I shortened it, everything fell right into place.
When I bought the '04, I bought a Blackwing for it, and found that it didn't fit either, the same as the '03, until I cut the Blackwing snout down 1/4". It fell right into place after that.
Like I said, I chased my tail with this problem for several weeks before I figured it out, and from what your experiencing, I'd almost bet that's your problem too.
Hey, I'm in Phoenix, if you're close, let's meet up and we can test fit my intake on your Z and see if that's the problem.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh NC
JTS,
I love my blackwing now. My tuner Jeff Creech at Carolina Auto Masters here in NC was able to get most of the stumbling idle out. It definitely did add some power to my engine. Jeff might be able to tell you the parameters he changed to tune it. Im also going to look at what Steve noted below about the hood possibly making contact with the top of the airbridge and when closed forming an air gap behind the MAF. Mine doesn't have the screen on the MAF. Someone must've removed it before I bought it. That is what the z06's have.
Steve, I wish I was in AZ now. I love it out there, was in Flagstaff for a week a few years back and did the tourist thing. Beautiful country.
Ed
I love my blackwing now. My tuner Jeff Creech at Carolina Auto Masters here in NC was able to get most of the stumbling idle out. It definitely did add some power to my engine. Jeff might be able to tell you the parameters he changed to tune it. Im also going to look at what Steve noted below about the hood possibly making contact with the top of the airbridge and when closed forming an air gap behind the MAF. Mine doesn't have the screen on the MAF. Someone must've removed it before I bought it. That is what the z06's have.
Steve, I wish I was in AZ now. I love it out there, was in Flagstaff for a week a few years back and did the tourist thing. Beautiful country.
Ed
Originally Posted by JTS97Z28
I was driving around last night with my now back to stock air box and now im really starting to feel the loss of power from going to blackwing to stock air box. I guess the computer is now learning the stock setup again. I can really feel the loss at midrange RPM's it seems that the car is literally starving for more air. I really wish I knew what it is that the car does not like about the blackwing. Since its easy to swap maybe I will try the blackwing one more time.
Just out of curiousity, say the blackwing is 100% sealed and installed correctly with no air leaks or seal issues. What could it be that is causing the car to surge on deceleration and my choppy idle? The only thing I can think of is the travel of air over the MAF is not correct. I still had the screen in mine and I was pretty sure thats what straightens out air flow over the sensors.
Anymore input?
Just out of curiousity, say the blackwing is 100% sealed and installed correctly with no air leaks or seal issues. What could it be that is causing the car to surge on deceleration and my choppy idle? The only thing I can think of is the travel of air over the MAF is not correct. I still had the screen in mine and I was pretty sure thats what straightens out air flow over the sensors.
Anymore input?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,547
Likes: 1
From: Riverside CA
Joe aka-KODAK
I've had a Blackwing on my 2003 almost 2 years and the only problem was just after installation was a leak with the stock air coupler. I replaced it and put a power duct on as well. It has ran perfect since.
It's a good system.
Like the others have said - check your installion - especially if you are using the stock bridge and coupler!
It's a good system.
Like the others have said - check your installion - especially if you are using the stock bridge and coupler!
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 51
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Originally Posted by 82shark
Steve, I wish I was in AZ now. I love it out there, was in Flagstaff for a week a few years back and did the tourist thing. Beautiful country.
Ed
Did you get your idle problem fixed?
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1
From: Iowa
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
Originally Posted by Steve04Z06
Hi Ed,
Yeah, this problem had me chasing my tail for awhile. I even went so far as to cut the rubber piece between the MAF and Blackwing shorter, thinking it was the problem, but that wasn't it. I didn't want to believe the Blackwing was too long either, but as soon as I shortened it, everything fell right into place.
When I bought the '04, I bought a Blackwing for it, and found that it didn't fit either, the same as the '03, until I cut the Blackwing snout down 1/4". It fell right into place after that.
Yeah, this problem had me chasing my tail for awhile. I even went so far as to cut the rubber piece between the MAF and Blackwing shorter, thinking it was the problem, but that wasn't it. I didn't want to believe the Blackwing was too long either, but as soon as I shortened it, everything fell right into place.
When I bought the '04, I bought a Blackwing for it, and found that it didn't fit either, the same as the '03, until I cut the Blackwing snout down 1/4". It fell right into place after that.
Not only does it fit, but there is no more air leak, causing the mixture to run far too lean , making it "ping' under hard acceleration and under load.
From what I could tell, before trimming the piece off, when the hood closed, it came down on top of the airbridge, forcing it down, causing an unnatural 'flexing' in the coupling, thereby allowing an air gap.
Good call Steve. Excellent!
TWO thumbs up for you!
