...and just how it affects a daily driver? The 2:73's are getting a little boring, probably moving to 3:42's w/ a TC cuz, well, I don't know why, it just seems to be the general consensus kinda thing to do if doing gears.

The car is a 2004 A4 that for the most part is just a daily commuter for my wife, weekend commuter/entertainer for me. It does get down the strip a few times each year and maybe someday the occasional auto-x/day at a 'drive yer own car' roadcourse/school.

The ultimate question is how a TC stall speed affects daily driving. Just what happens at the stall speed; is that the point when the converter completely locks up and directs 100% of engine to rest of drivetrain? How does this affect daily drivability, i.e. what will I notice different from stock when casually pulling away from light, moving around parking lot?

What's a good stall for 95% street-driven machine?

I don't even know why I do this stuff, it's not like I often use the potential/ability of the upgrades...

...but it does just seems fun to know they are there.

thanks

 

Unless you plan on drag racing the car IMHO a swap to 3.42 gears will give you all you want for the street and your described usage.
High stall converters bring their own problems with them, increased heat is the number 1 problem so you will need a extra cooler.
Basicly increased stall speed is achieved by allowing more slippage between the stator and the turbine within the converter.
The other issue that arises is increased torque to the internal's of the transmission, thus more apt to failure of clutchs and hard parts.
Driveabilty is sometimes better with a higher stall but if it's not matched with the gear ratio change it can make the car feel loose.
The first change I did to my car was adding the 3.42 gearset and found I could smoke the tires all the way through 1st and get a good long bark in 2nd with a stock converter so why do anything more to make it spin the tires harder?
I have done a number of other mods but still have retained the stock converter and love it.
Note: If you do a head and cam package then you may want to look at a higher stall to get back what you will lose on the bottom end.
I went the F/I route JMHO.

 

I have the 3.42's and the Yank s2800 TC. I drive it everyday so i wasn't sure about the converter either, but considering the labor involved in the change, i went ahead and did both at the same time. I love the setup for my style of driving which is back and forth to work, highway trips to the beach, and a little bit more off the starting line at the track. The only issue i had w/ the TC change was that i didn't know that at 2800 (slightly over stock) the TC would cause a Trans slippage code which would need to edited through tuning which rendered my predator useless unless i get a custom tune for it.

 

Even what is considered, on the Forum anyway , a tight converter, that 2800 is quite a bit over stock stall speed. I believe stock is 1600 rpms.
Ed

 

I have been fighting this question for the last week. When do need a higher stall TC.

I have 412RWHP and burn thru first and into second with Kuhmo 295 on 18 inch wheels and traction control is ON!!

No question the higher stall will give you a faster time at the strip.
No question the higher stall will be necessary for drivability on a large cam.

I daily drive 95 % of time.
Road race, canyon run and generally burn up the tires whenever I'm off the freeway. Been to the strip twice and will go back. But I am wary that the TC will mess me up at the open track and canyon running. So I may leave my TC stock even though I am shortly going with FLP (IV) tranny.

I don't know if this helps you at all but might get you thinking what you should do....cause I don't know what to do......

PS you would enjoy just the 3.42 gears. Made a big difference going from my 3.15!!


DH

 

Gears and TC (Cooler Needed) Trans tuning also.
373 AND VIGILANTE 2800 ,great street combo ,(STR and Stall)
Higher Stall torque ratio (str) harder on tires and tighter on launch.
Stall is the rpm reached before lockup ,keeps rpm up in higher torque range.MORE SHIFT EXTENTION (research all of this )
Feels like slipage on a normal traffic light take off
I have 373 and 3800 ,but I like to take it to the track once a year or so.
All 4 speed auto OD transmissions should be 373, My opinion !
Gears and torque converter is the best mod for a A4 , My opinion !
I have had 315, 342, (not much change) and 3500 stall Yank and now I have 373 and Vigilante 3800
3800 would feel like too much for a first time user ,2800 Perfect
These changes cost money ,get ER right , the first time .(If its possible ) LOL
Have fun
John Sr.

 

I have a '00 A4 and I would encourage you to do both.

I have installed the 3.42's and a Precision Vigilante 2400 TC (needs a tranny cooler for racing). I drive it everyday & I road race with my vette, so i wasn't sure about the converter either, but I went ahead and did both at the same time.

I really like the setup for my style of driving. I now have noticeably more torque.

SkankZilla - "The only issue i had w/ the TC change was that i didn't know that at 2800 (slightly over stock) " - I believe stock is around 1600 to 1800 RPM - you wont believe the difference - much much more torque .
I had my computer tuned with LS1Edit to setup the 342's.

 

go 3:73 for a bit more zip

 

I can't explain the terms but I can offer some experience. My '02 came with the 273 rear, I hated it! It was work to break the rears loose. I upgraded to the 342 and a SY3500. I did so at the same time because everybody said save the labor and do them both together or you'll be back to do the TC later. I wish I could have experienced it with the 342s and the stock converter. I definately think the gears are a great improvement over the 273! The TC I'm not so sure about. It may be just a little loose for my daily driving style. At the track, that I go to maybe once a year, the TC I'm sure helps, my problem now is traction! I think if I had to do it over I would go with the 342 and a 2800 TC, no higher. I'll probably get flamed on that but thats just how I feel. Sometimes I feel like there is just too much slippage. Oh and I also added an additional tranny cooler to help with the extra heat from that slippage. My driving is mainly in town to and from work and around town as it sounds like you will be doing. I do think you would be happy just going with the gears, but if you plan on going to the track at all go with a 2400-2800 TC, I've heard the stock TC is 1400-1800.

Good luck with your decision!

Doug

 

Oh I forgot, if you think your T/C is slipping to much - I added a Transgo shift kit (at Prision's advice) & boy did that stop the slipping.

 

Wow...its hard to find someone who has road race experience with a larger TC. Did you track before the Vigilante too? Whats the difference?
Is there any problem with the TC unlocking and unsettling the car going into sweepers. How about loss of traction accelerating out of a turn and the tranny downshifting?


DH

 

I do 2 types of Road Racing -
1. Open Road Racing (here is one site to explain it) http://www.bborr.com/ - Texas Area

and 2. closed course road racing -

I did both before the T/C & rear end change to 3:42's and the difference is a much greater (faster) acceleration out of courners with the T/C and 3:42 rearend.

- on the Open Road Race I never shift , I let the car shift

- on the closed road race course, I always shift manually because if the car downshifts when it should not, it would spin me around.

If you've never done any Open Road Racing, you should try it. Here are some of the places that I go:

http://www.sorcrace.com/ - Arnold Nebraska

http://www.openroadracing.com/ - Upper Nevada

http://www.silverstateclassic.com/ - Las Vegas Area

Lots of California people go to all of these races.

 

I do DO open track at WSIR !!!!!

This is why I am asking for your experience in this area. I do manually downshift in some cases. And in others I let the tranny do the shifting. Depends on the severety of the turn and what is ahead after the turn.

I am specifecally interested in how the car would respond differently with the TC. I do not want to lose control or have the car upset in a high speed sweeper by the TC delivering unsuspected power to the wheels or locking/unlocking unexpectidly.

Please advise.......


DH

 

I have the 3.42 gears plus a Pro-Torque 2400-2600 TC. I love the setup for the street and strip. I went with a lower stall than recommended by the Fourm- but I am very happy with the combo. Once you get used to it, you don't even notice the slight "looseness" from stock. All other functions- shifts, lock-up, etc- are the same as stock.

Another plus- with the transmission line pressure re-programmed to "firm"- shifts prior to the TC were a bit hard- now perfect. At the stock setting I think they would be too loose.

Go on the Pro-Torque website www.protorque.com for some good information on the technical aspects of TC's.

 

Dirty Howie
I'm no expert, but I can tell you that the T/C & 3:42 gives you much more torque - the more you drive it & practice (just as you've done in the past) the more you understand exactly what your car will do and when it will do it.
So to say it another way, it will respond much better & you will learn exactly what to expect and so it will not surprise you at all, it will just be much quicker. Just be careful the first few times you use it & you will be fine.

Hope this helps -

 

Good point. I gotta be careful NOW!! I am still learning how to control my new power.

Ok what do you think is the ideal TC to match with the 3.42 gear for open track use.

Thanks for your help.....I think I might be sorry later if I don't do the TC.



DH

 

I knew that 3000 and above were strictly for drag racing & the higher you got the less daily driver friendly (streetable) it would act (even though some people do drive around town with 3500 to 4000- rpm stall converters) - every one on this forum advised above 3000, but I've learned to ask for advice from the forum, but not to necessaryly follow that advice.

So I called the manufacturer (Precision Industries -105 Pierce Street
Oakland, TN 38060 - Tel: (901)466-0267) and talked to them, they were very nice & spent several minutes asking me questions about my mods / H.P. / the 3:42 rear end and exactly how much I raced & what type of racing (drag / autocross / open track / etc.) that I did.

They suggested I to visit their website http://www.converter.com/index.htm they had alot of information under "frequently asked questions" and they finally suggested a 2400 stall converter.

So this is a long winded answer to say that I asked alot of people & then gathered alot of information (from several manufacturers) and then finally went with what the guys that actually make the T/C suggested ( I felt they probably knew more about the T/C than anyone else.)

After I put the T/C in I felt that it launched great, but shifted kinda Sloushy at higher speeds (I had no idea how they were supposed to feel) so I called them agian & we talked through what I was feeling & they suggesred I install a "Transgo" shift kit - I did and now I'm very glad that I did it and I'm completely satisfied with the way it drives & the way it races.

Phew - sorry to be so wordy.

I hope this helps..

 

You can understand the basics of a converter by thinking about two oscillating fans faced opposing one another. Turn one on and the the other begins to turns also as the air flows through it. This is like the front and back halves of the converter. They are initially at different speeds but eventually reach the same rotational speed. In modern lockup-converters you achieve this effect more often/rapidly with an electronically driven wet clutch, the TCC. It's never really 100% efficient, but it's close. This clutch is nice because not relying on the fluid coupling for this lock up (like the example of the fans) allows you to run a much larger converter and still have a nice cruise mode performance. However, you only get this benefit when the clutch is engaged, meaning a looser converter is often most noticeable during low speed maneuvering. You may notice your exhaust a lot more here.

Back to the fans, you can imagine that changing the numbers of blades, angle of the blades, area of the blades, and so forth will change the effect that one fan has on the other. These are some of the things that make one converter design different from another. Weight, materials, and other construction-related features are important to consider.

My bet is that for your application, you don't want a lot of stall but do want nice torque multiplication. It sounds like the additional torque multiplication would be the big argument for not sticking with the stock converter. I'd have a hard time justifying the additional cost of the converter for the small change, but it's not my car. Sometimes the small changes are the ones that make it "just right."

 

Don&Kelly:

 

Not long winded at all. I appreciate you taking the time. And I already
read everything on the Vigilante. Interesting that they don't list prices though??

BigMac: thank you too for your input. Did you look at the Vigilante before going Protorque

I feel comfortable knowing that you two have been on the track with a moderate TC and are happy.

Whats the difference between these two companies converters.

I need to make a decision FAST. My FLP level 4 is going in on Saturday!!!!