How does driveline work? Specifically torque tube?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 165
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From: Vernon Hills IL
How does driveline work? Specifically torque tube?
Can someone explain to me the driveline on a C5? Specifically the torque tube... what is it and how does it work?
Isn't the C5 a typical driveline setup, or is it not? I mean, Engine to trans, to driveshaft, to diff. I'm trying to figure out the basics on the C5.
Was the C4 the same?
Thanks,
Jeff
Isn't the C5 a typical driveline setup, or is it not? I mean, Engine to trans, to driveshaft, to diff. I'm trying to figure out the basics on the C5.
Was the C4 the same?
Thanks,
Jeff
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Haw River North Carolina
Its Engine -- Clutch -- Torque Tube (Driveshaft) -- Transmission (mounted to Rear Diff instead of engine) -- Rear Diff -- Output Shafts -- Rear Tires.
That's how I understand it. I'm sure someone else will jump in here in a minute with a more indepth analysis.
Take it easy!
That's how I understand it. I'm sure someone else will jump in here in a minute with a more indepth analysis.
Take it easy!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 792
Likes: 19
From: ME
Yes the transmission is indeed in the rear of the car. Designed that way for weight distribution. What I find most interesting and precious about the design of the driveline is that the driveshaft has no u-joints at all. This means that you'll never have to worry about wearing out U-joints obviously, but more importantly the driveline has a much lower tendency to create vibrations with the engine, transmission, driveshaft and differential all in a perfect line. The only negatives are, a somewhat elaborate shifter mechanism and shift rod that can be notchy to operate, and that you have to remove your entire driveline to replace the clutch. The configuration also requires a rather unique slave cylinder as well, which sadly has it's problems and also to R+R requires removal of the driveline.
So ride with pride my friend, you have a very unique and ingeniously crafted driveline working for you.
So ride with pride my friend, you have a very unique and ingeniously crafted driveline working for you.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Vernon Hills IL
Couple of more questions...
1. The torque tube... can it be shortened or eliminated altogether?
2. The clutch controls... are they by wire?
Your probably wondering why in the world I would want to eliminate the torque tube... I am just dreaming at the moment, but seriously looking into, how feasible it would be to use the C5 drivetrain in a mid-engine configuration. No, not a kit car, well not one available anyway. I am just kicking around the idea of building a custom frame to do so.
But I think even with the torque tube eliminated the engine/clutch/trans unit would be too long.
Thanks,
jeff
1. The torque tube... can it be shortened or eliminated altogether?
2. The clutch controls... are they by wire?
Your probably wondering why in the world I would want to eliminate the torque tube... I am just dreaming at the moment, but seriously looking into, how feasible it would be to use the C5 drivetrain in a mid-engine configuration. No, not a kit car, well not one available anyway. I am just kicking around the idea of building a custom frame to do so.
But I think even with the torque tube eliminated the engine/clutch/trans unit would be too long.
Thanks,
jeff
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Haw River North Carolina
Answers
1. Shorten - Not unless you shorten the car at the mid-section. With a kit car, I suppose you could have have a custom Torque Tube made. Much as they do for custom drive shafts.
Eliminate - Nope. You need to allow for movement between the components mounted to the differential (lots of movement) and the Engine (very little movement).
2. Clutch is hydraulic (fluid) actuated and the shifter is by mechanical linkage.
That's the facts as I know it. Maybe someone else who's seen something exotic at a show will chime in.
Keep up the dreamin'. That's how we got Vettes.
1. Shorten - Not unless you shorten the car at the mid-section. With a kit car, I suppose you could have have a custom Torque Tube made. Much as they do for custom drive shafts.
Eliminate - Nope. You need to allow for movement between the components mounted to the differential (lots of movement) and the Engine (very little movement).
2. Clutch is hydraulic (fluid) actuated and the shifter is by mechanical linkage.
That's the facts as I know it. Maybe someone else who's seen something exotic at a show will chime in.
Keep up the dreamin'. That's how we got Vettes.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,885
Likes: 2
From: Corpus Christi TX
question(s):
how does the linkage from the shifter location to the tranny work? How can the shifter move side to side (and rotate the inner rod) of the linkage WHILE the car is in a gear?
how does the linkage from the shifter location to the tranny work? How can the shifter move side to side (and rotate the inner rod) of the linkage WHILE the car is in a gear?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: bloomfield nj
also the driveshaft is constantly spinning inside the torque tube.that's why six speeds have the "marble" noise.on normal engine to trans bolt ups the input shaft of the tranny slides into the clutch disc hub that's bolted to the flywheel and power is transmitted through the trans to the driveshaft and into the rear.on a c5 the driveshaft is slid into the clutch disc and the driveshaft spins the input shaft in the trans[difference between a stick and a a4 is the driveshaft spins the torque converter.also a auto driveshaft is different than a manual.i believe 1 uses a dampner].if you step on the clutch[disengage the clutch disc] in a mn6 the driveshaft will slow down.on a auto it stays constant.
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Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Haw River North Carolina
This is my understanding of the shifter Operation:
1. The Left-Right movement goes no further than the base of the shifter.
2. Gear selection goes to the Tranny as pure forward - rearward movement of the shift rod. Length of forward or rearward movement determines which gear the Tranny goes into.
3. At the base of the shifter is a "Shift control" that has a set of different length dogs for each shift location that index the Shift Rod based on which dog is moved / shifter location that is entered. The "Shift Control" is mounted to the "Driveline Support Assembly" (Torque Tube Casing).
HTH
1. The Left-Right movement goes no further than the base of the shifter.
2. Gear selection goes to the Tranny as pure forward - rearward movement of the shift rod. Length of forward or rearward movement determines which gear the Tranny goes into.
3. At the base of the shifter is a "Shift control" that has a set of different length dogs for each shift location that index the Shift Rod based on which dog is moved / shifter location that is entered. The "Shift Control" is mounted to the "Driveline Support Assembly" (Torque Tube Casing).
HTH
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Vernon Hills IL
Appreciate the replys. Unfortunately for me, it just doesn't seem feasible to use the C5 drivetrain (entirely) in a mid-engine configuration.
Does the torque tube just surround the driveshaft inside of it or does it serve a mechanical purpose (other than providing some extra stiffness)? Can the actual outer tube be removed and just use the driveshaft within?
J
Does the torque tube just surround the driveshaft inside of it or does it serve a mechanical purpose (other than providing some extra stiffness)? Can the actual outer tube be removed and just use the driveshaft within?
J
Racer
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Haw River North Carolina
It does surround the driveshaft and help to stabilize the engine in relation to the tranny. I don't think I would try to run without it unless you devise another method to keep the tranny aligned to the rear of the engine. Or to mount the tranny that still allows it to move with the rearend.
Supporting Tuner
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Here are some pics of the torque tube. The coupler pictured is a LGM solid aluminum coupler vs. the stock rubber coupler
More pics here - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...9&forum_id=103
More pics here - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...9&forum_id=103
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Vernon Hills IL
Very interesting. Learn something new every day.
Why the change to the solid coupler? Just more strength I imagine. Kind of like switching out a rubber motor mount for solid ones?
So it looks like the rear diff and trans are not connected to the car, not directly at least. That cradle is what is bolted to the car correct? And the diff/trans unit kind of floats but is still solid to the torque tube?
Why the change to the solid coupler? Just more strength I imagine. Kind of like switching out a rubber motor mount for solid ones?
So it looks like the rear diff and trans are not connected to the car, not directly at least. That cradle is what is bolted to the car correct? And the diff/trans unit kind of floats but is still solid to the torque tube?
Supporting Tuner
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,896
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From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Originally Posted by jhilb
Very interesting. Learn something new every day.
Why the change to the solid coupler? Just more strength I imagine. Kind of like switching out a rubber motor mount for solid ones?
So it looks like the rear diff and trans are not connected to the car, not directly at least. That cradle is what is bolted to the car correct? And the diff/trans unit kind of floats but is still solid to the torque tube?
Why the change to the solid coupler? Just more strength I imagine. Kind of like switching out a rubber motor mount for solid ones?
So it looks like the rear diff and trans are not connected to the car, not directly at least. That cradle is what is bolted to the car correct? And the diff/trans unit kind of floats but is still solid to the torque tube?
