I'm installing my A&A ATI kit and am at the point where I need to pin the crank. My buddy and I spend ~4 hours last night trying to A) move the steering rack enough to get to the bolt and B) get the F***ing bolt out. Cracked a 24mm deep socket using breaker bar and my impact turned up all the way running at 130 PSI doesn't budge it. Lastly we tried using a non-deep socket with a series of extensions with him keeping the flywheel from moving and me pulling/pushing as hard as I could on a ~3 foot breaker bar. WTF?!? Sprayed plenty of liquid wrench on it.

Can someone suggest a specific set of socket/extension combination that is not too long or short to be able to get this thing off? Why can't Chevy just key the flippin' crank and use a human amount of torque to put the bolt on?

 

first-do not use a impact wrench
second-you can try heating the bolt (only) with a propane torch,
this will elongate it a little. keep the pulley cool (wet rag)
third- a quality 1/2" breaker bar and a 3-4 ft. piece of black pipe over the bar for lev.
that should be it. I have broken breaker bars and extensions this way so be careful.

 

with your M6 you should be able to put it in 5th gear and have it hold. As for the wrench, I used a shallow "impact" socket from Sears with a 18" breaker bar with the handle from the hydraulic lift over it. All in all it's roughly 4' feet of breaker bar and a good amount of pulling to free it up. Forget the impact wrench it won't even dent it. Because it's in gear your probably taking out a lot of flex from the drive line components before you get full force on the bolt. I used a fly wheel lock on my A4 which made it easier.
For peace of mind I used 2 stainless steel pins instead of just one. I never wanted to do this procedure again.

Have your wife do it and then say you loosened it up for her.

 

add another vote on the 3-4 breaker bar

 

I forgot to mention to put it in gear, I even had someone sit in the car with their foot on the brake

 

Yea, we had it in gear and the e-brake on but there was still too much movement in the drivetrain. Putting a screwdriver in the vent of the bellhousing was the only way to keep it from moving. I only had ~2 foot of pipe over the breaker bar so I guess more is in order. Heating the bolt is a good idea. No one is mentioning extensions. You need at least one small one to get outside the pully and that generates enough of a moment to where it seems like someone needs to hold the socket so it doesn't just **** to one side and round the bolt. Man if I round that bolt off I'm selling the car.

 

Personally I think heating is a waste of time because the bolt is heat sync'd to the balancer and crank so any heat will never get deep enough to reach the threads. Point 2, unless you want a lawsuit don't let anyone put their hands near that bolt when you're wrenching. And yes you may need a 1" extension to get outside the balancer but I can't remember for sure. Just make sure the socket is one of those new fangled 6 point sockets that grab the head and not just the corners like the old ones used to. That's why I mentioned Craftman tools.
Just wait until you go to put the new bolt in. You did buy a new bolt? Right.

 

The A&A crank pinning kit came with a brand new GM bolt. When the new one goes in it's just going to be plenty of loctite, impact on #4 and air pressure @ 130 PSI. Done and done.

I'm hoping the heat will at least loosen up whatever gorilla loctite they put on it at the factory.

I do wish it came with two pins because I would feel better about it.

Good point about using a good socket. I've been using my Harbor Freight stuff.

 

you should ck out the procedure www.ls1howto.com , you use the old bolt for initial torque, then install the 'new' bolt for final torque, it also helps to have threaded rod to fab your own bal. install tool; i wouldn't use the stock bolt to pull on the bal.

 

Let's talk. Can we talk?

First, I spoke with Andy when I did mine and he said to use an impact gun. But keep in mind his impact was able to remove the bolt...yours did not. It's obviouly not strong enough. second the crank bolt is a stretch bolt, so you go to a set torque and then measure the degrees beyond that. Since the balancer is stationary you can mark the angle needed with a marker and torque accordingly. Even though the pin is in there it's not a high tolerance operation and the pulley is going to oscillate "on load" and "off load" a lot. Let's make sure it stays put. If you want a 2nd pin, go to Home Depot and buy a Stainless Steel bolt with a smooth shaft of at least 3/4" long near the bolt head and cut the threads and head off. File it smooth and you good to go for $0.35.

Come to think of it, no extension was needed on the socket. Measure the distance from the socket head to the outside of the balancer and it should only be <2". Go buy a socket that will fit without an extension. Are you trying to reach the bolt from in front of the rack? That's no good if you are.

I'm shocked your socket hasn't fractured yet. Going cheap is often more costly in the end.

Good luck

 

That's only if your installing a new balancer. Use the old bolt to set it and the new bolt to lock it in.

 

Why do you have to use a new bolt? I changed mine about a year ago and used my old bolt and haven't had a problem. I was just wondering.

 

I will rethink not torque to yielding the bolt. I will put a breaker on it but 140 degrees is A LOT!

Thats an easy way to make another pin.

I was going in front of the rack. I think this is a major part of the problem. I will look at what it's goign to take to get behind it. Probably another 2 hours of messing around with the rack.

Thanks for the advice thus far.

 

The bolt is a stretch to torque bolt and is a one time only use bolt. You can buy an ARP repeated use bolt for accurate torqueing but the stocker can't be relied on when re-installing it. The instructions require a set initial torque of 37 ft lbs and then 140 degrees beyond that. That last 5 degrees was really tough to get. Now will the old bolt break when re-torqued? I don't know. Why risk it for a $6 part on a >$5000 engine?
Technically speaking, if you pin the crank then you no longer need 250 ft lbs of torque to hold the balancer on. I would guess 150 ft lbs would be sufficient but that would be your call. Me, I did 2 pins and full torque.

 

Sure, glad to help. You may find it easier to attack this from the top side rather than from below.

I read somewhere here that someone used an aluminum pin and it sheared in half in short order, so use something strong as the forces are severe.

 

The pin should be a dowel pin, which is slightly oversized (.0002 to .0005") I wouldn't use a cut down home depot bolt, inthat it will just flop around in there. Get a dowel pin.

Also, I hate the stock bolt. I used an ARP bolt. With pins, just torque it to over 90 ft. lbs and you're good to go.

JMO (Machinist for 30 years)

 

When I finally got mine:

3/4" impact gun socket (normal depth)
3/4" breaker bar 18"
4' pipe extension (from my floor jack)

put the car in gear, put the breaker bar on, rotate ccw until you snug up to the drive train flex. Then get the breaker bar in position as far on the drivers side as possible. With just the breaker bar, no extension yet. You should be able to get it almost horizontal, 15 deg up from horizontal maybe. You may need to let the handle come forward 30 degrees or so, dont worry you wont need too much force to begin with. Rotate ccw until you can straighten up the handle and get the extension on it. Let the extension rest, go around the other side of the car, grab the extension and rotate ccw towards you. When I did it, the pull got really hard around -20deg (if you count 0deg as straight up), but by then I could get my weight (225#) involved. Got it down about 8 inches from the coolant resevoir and bounced on it about a dozen times, then bam!

I did do this by myself, but I also had the steering rack completely out of the way, not sure if that is hurting you or not. With you and a buddy, should be np, unless someone before you had it off and put a boatload of loc-tite on the bolt. That's where heating it will help.

Now have a beer and call it a night, heh... and for God's sake, don't reuse that bolt

Good luck!

 

Good info. Who sells dowels? I matched mine to the cobalt drill bit I used to make sure it was snug off the car. Something I was also concerned about was future removal of the balancer. If the dowel was too tight where it needed to be pounded in, then the balancer would be difficult to remove. Unlike a key way that is cut through and through, this pin only goes in 3/4" and tha balancer won't be able to slide off/over the pin. I could be wrong but just not willing to risk it.

 

Most bolts will be undersized by at least a couple of thousanths. My Maggie kit had a drill bit and reamer. The reamer was .250". The dowels being just a couple of tenths over are just snug. I just removed the damper on my C5 with no problems. You do not want a loose fit

Dowel pins are hardened and oversized. Most bolt houses have them, but you may have to buy a box.

I have 2 kits, and one had 1/4 x 3/8" long dowels and the other had 1/4 x 1/2"

Some good hardware stores have them individually.

 

5 Liter Eater:

You have to have the rack completely out of the way. No need to use an extension. I still have the socket I used to get mine off and back on. I would do the torque to yield procedure then pin it for the S/C.

It still took two good sized guys, me pulling and a friend pushing, and a 4 ft pipe on an 18 in breaker bar to get it out. That is not the hard part. Getting 140' degrees of rotation on the new bolt is a real b'it'ch.

If you need a some help from someone who has done this p.m. me and I can come over after 7:00 tonight.