First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (Second Question)
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Monticello MN
First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (Second Question)
This concerns Competitive Driving with 1998-2000 cars. Do you believe that Traction Control is completely disabled in Competitive Driving? It is not. With an A4, in Competitive Driving, try power braking. While stepping on the brake and depressing the accelerator, the further you depress the accelerator the further DOWN in power the engine will cycle. It feels weird. In order to power brake, you must completely turn off Traction Control and Active Handling. Generation 2 Active Handling owners can power brake in Competitive Driving. What is the result of power braking, you ask?...clouds of blue smoke and long twin streaks of rubber! It would be nice to be able to do this with the Active Handling security blanket. Certainly not something you want to do everyday, but it sure made me wonder about possible limiting effects on acceleration in Competitive Driving vs turning everything off on the Generation 1 cars.
Ed
[Modified by C5XTASY, 6:45 PM 8/16/2001]
Ed
[Modified by C5XTASY, 6:45 PM 8/16/2001]
Drifting
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,481
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From: San Diego CA
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (C5XTASY)
You're full of interesting things today!
I don't have an automatic, so I can't try this, but it's very interesting.
I know I've tried running at the drag strip in Competition Mode and with Active Handling and Traction Control disabled and seen no difference. That's with an MN6 though.
Could this have something to do with torque management? Then again, if it did, why would turning off Traction Control and Active Handling make a difference?
This could be a good one for C5 Tech.
Mike
I don't have an automatic, so I can't try this, but it's very interesting.
I know I've tried running at the drag strip in Competition Mode and with Active Handling and Traction Control disabled and seen no difference. That's with an MN6 though.
Could this have something to do with torque management? Then again, if it did, why would turning off Traction Control and Active Handling make a difference?
This could be a good one for C5 Tech.
Mike
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Monticello MN
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (Mike Schriber)
You're full of interesting things today!
Ed
Team Owner
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From: Nassau NP
Tropical Moderator
Cruise-In 1-5 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'10-'11
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (C5XTASY)
I believe what you are running up against is ANOTHER safety feature called Torque Management. It is another device outside of Traction Control and Active Handling that helps protect the A4 and Torque Converters.
Someone with more knowledge then I will most likely expand on this with more detail.
FWIW
Neill
Someone with more knowledge then I will most likely expand on this with more detail.
FWIW
Neill
Racer
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Flippin AR
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (C5XTASY)
Yes, I believe it's torque management but I also think it's necessary for active handling to work properly. Example: You are turning very slowly and give it too much throttle. The back end would normally break free, and start to come around. But wait! To stop the spin, a back wheel or two must be braked. A front wheel won't do. But we've already determined that the back brakes, even when fully applied, cannot overpower engine torque. So how would active handling save you from spinning? By killing the torque going to the back wheels.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 672
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From: Scottsdale AZ
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (C5XTASY)
:mad
You are correct, it is Torque management and with TC/AH truned off the car can be dangerous if you are not careful.
The only way to leave long black strips with smoke on an A4 is with TC/AH off.
You are correct, it is Torque management and with TC/AH truned off the car can be dangerous if you are not careful.
The only way to leave long black strips with smoke on an A4 is with TC/AH off.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Monticello MN
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (John Silver)
Yes, I believe it's torque management but I also think it's necessary for active handling to work properly.
Ed
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Twin Cities, MN
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (Mike Schriber)
Wow, I NEVER would have found that. I tried power braking at the NCM late one night. My dad got some shots of it. :cool: :yesnod:
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: San Diego CA
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (C5XTASY)
Hmmm... I don't think it's Active Handling. Active Handling is a reactive system. It only kicks in when it senses a difference between where the driver wants to go (as indicated by the steering wheel position) and where the car is going (data from the yaw, acceleration and wheels sensors).
If you're trying to spin the back wheels, that's Traction Control only.
Now, if you apply the brake hard in an A4 and stomp the throttle, the torque on the driveline is going to be huge. This could cause the torque management to kick in and reduce power. This should be completely separate from the Active Handling and Traction Control systems.
One question for you A4 guys... If you apply full brake and then throttle up (with TC/AH off), can you move or do the brakes hold the car in place. Technically, the car shouldn't move with full brakes applied, no matter what the throttle setting. The torque converter can only transfer so much power and once RPM’s pass a certain point, you're just thrashing the fluid everywhere and no hydraulic power transfer is taking place.
As I said, very interesting.
Mike
If you're trying to spin the back wheels, that's Traction Control only.
Now, if you apply the brake hard in an A4 and stomp the throttle, the torque on the driveline is going to be huge. This could cause the torque management to kick in and reduce power. This should be completely separate from the Active Handling and Traction Control systems.
One question for you A4 guys... If you apply full brake and then throttle up (with TC/AH off), can you move or do the brakes hold the car in place. Technically, the car shouldn't move with full brakes applied, no matter what the throttle setting. The torque converter can only transfer so much power and once RPM’s pass a certain point, you're just thrashing the fluid everywhere and no hydraulic power transfer is taking place.
As I said, very interesting.
Mike
Thread Starter
Safety Car
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From: Monticello MN
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (Mike Schriber)
One question for you A4 guys... If you apply full brake and then throttle up (with TC/AH off), can you move or do the brakes hold the car in place. Technically, the car shouldn't move with full brakes applied, no matter what the throttle setting. As I said, very interesting.
Mike
Mike
Ed
Thread Starter
Safety Car
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From: Monticello MN
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (C5XTASY)
Tried it out again this morning. With AH and TC turned off, engine power overrides the brakes about 1500 rpm. Releasing the brakes as the wheels begin to turn, and dialing in more throttle at that point results in a pretty impressive show!
Ed
Ed
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From: Murfreesboro, TN
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St. Jude Donor '08-'11-'13-'14-'15
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (C5XTASY)
Thanks for the post - I have been noticing the same thing and was wondering what was going on! Now I know.
Pretty embarassing at the CF Cruise-In when everyone was burning out in front of the NCM but all I did was bog down.
Not next time!! :D Thanks,
Pretty embarassing at the CF Cruise-In when everyone was burning out in front of the NCM but all I did was bog down.
Not next time!! :D Thanks,
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Monticello MN
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (TOBASCO)
Thanks for the post - I have been noticing the same thing and was wondering what was going on! Now I know.
Pretty embarassing at the CF Cruise-In when everyone was burning out in front of the NCM but all I did was bog down.
Not next time!! :D Thanks,
Pretty embarassing at the CF Cruise-In when everyone was burning out in front of the NCM but all I did was bog down.
Not next time!! :D Thanks,
Ed
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Wilmington NC
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (C5XTASY)
so is the active handling on when the traction control is on--if so does it disengage when i turn off the traction control???? Sorry i'm now to this C5 stuff 
Drifting
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: San Diego CA
Re: First Generation Active Handling Owners...Did You Know This? (1HOTVETT)
If you hit the button once, it turns off both Traction Control and Active Handling. If you hold it down for five seconds and set Competition Mode, you are just turning off Traction Control.
Mike
Mike
