160* or 180* therm?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 0
From: Crofton MD
You couldn't pay me enough to replace my thermostat in my vehicle (Unless you want to pay me the price of the vehicle itself). Operating below the correct operating temps causes premature wear and prolonged warm-up times. Not healthy for longevity and many say also not even helpful in the hp department due to effiiciency. As for me, I'm all about maintaining my vehicle, and lowering your running temps does not appeal to me, all logic considered.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 21,325
Likes: 3,841
From: small town in S.E Pa. PA
St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Originally Posted by Hammie
You couldn't pay me enough to replace my thermostat in my vehicle (Unless you want to pay me the price of the vehicle itself). Operating below the correct operating temps causes premature wear and prolonged warm-up times. Not healthy for longevity and many say also not even helpful in the hp department due to effiiciency. As for me, I'm all about maintaining my vehicle, and lowering your running temps does not appeal to me, all logic considered.
Pretty good advice from a relative newbie here,,,,the C5 was designed to run between 190 and200 coolant, and 200 210 oil temps... running slightly hotter is OK but running colder is a no no.. you do not want to run your car below 190F for long periods of time..
If you go with a 160 in MN, you will have to change it out for the winter...
Stock fan setting were designed to work in the 230F coolant environment. Take note of the red line on the gage for coolant temp.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,827
Likes: 352
From: Albuquerque NM
Actually, it all depends on what you want from the car. It will produce more HP at a slightly lower temp (160 to 180), but you will have to change the oil more often (the oil life algorythm compensates for lower temps and advises earlier changes). I've run mine with a 160 for 5 years now, admittedly only 25,000 miles and it runs stronger now than when I first did heads/cam.
Will running it cooler for more power hurt it in the long run (100,00 miles or so)? Maybe, but....
I DON'T CARE. I'll rebuild it or sell it before then.
Everything is a compromise. Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya choices.
How long do you plan to run this motor?
Will running it cooler for more power hurt it in the long run (100,00 miles or so)? Maybe, but....
I DON'T CARE. I'll rebuild it or sell it before then.
Everything is a compromise. Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya choices.
How long do you plan to run this motor?
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 26,345
Likes: 232
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
Pretty good advice from a relative newbie here,,,,the C5 was designed to run between 190 and200 coolant, and 200 210 oil temps... running slightly hotter is OK but running colder is a no no.. you do not want to run your car below 190F for long periods of time..
If you go with a 160 in MN, you will have to change it out for the winter...
Stock fan setting were designed to work in the 230F coolant environment. Take note of the red line on the gage for coolant temp.
DH
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,918
Likes: 1,879
From: Hot Springs AR
Originally Posted by 6Speeder
It will produce more HP at a slightly lower temp (160 to 180
What can be said is that lower engine temps usually cause more friction.
And how much HP gain are you thinking? Anything under 10 I think would be in the noise from one dyno run to the next.
No flaming, but I just don't get it.
Have a good one,
Mike
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 0
From: Rowayton Ct.
I had mine tuned at Corvettes of Westchester, and Chuck put in the 160 stat because I was getting ping at WOT with the stocker. He re-programmed the fans, and since, the car runs great.
I think the claimed HP gains may be related to the lower temp stat reducing ping, but I don't know for sure.
I think the claimed HP gains may be related to the lower temp stat reducing ping, but I don't know for sure.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,827
Likes: 352
From: Albuquerque NM
Our cars run on the edge of spark knock, pulling and adding timing as needed. A major cause of KR is having a hot spot in the cylinder head. Keeping the engine a little cooler allows you to use all the PCM's timing or, with tuning, add even more. I worked with a chassis dyno tuning Vettes, and ALL encountered, from stockers, mild to wild heads/cam, to sleeved/bored and stroked LS1's and LS6's made more power when run a little cooler. As for increased friction, from what? Consider that GM allows full throttle/timing/high rpm operation at much lower temps than 160. we never saw less power, like you would think with increased friction, allways more. As for increased thickness of the oil at lower temps, check your oil pressure when the coolant is up to 180, then when it's up to 205. It's the same. A 5w-30 will flow the same at these temps.
Some rightly say the LS1 was designed to run at higher temps than 180. They are right, but the reason to do that is not for optimum power but for lower emissions. NOx emissions are less when you are running hotter. Maybe after running 100,000 miles at lower temps you could have a problem passing emissions, but I never came close in all the times I have run the sniffer test.
Some rightly say the LS1 was designed to run at higher temps than 180. They are right, but the reason to do that is not for optimum power but for lower emissions. NOx emissions are less when you are running hotter. Maybe after running 100,000 miles at lower temps you could have a problem passing emissions, but I never came close in all the times I have run the sniffer test.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 844
Likes: 46
From: Southaven MS
Thermostat
I recently had my car tuned at Thunder Racing. I replaced my thermostat with a 160 because they said lower engine temps reduce the chance of detonation. I run a 100 shot of nitrous so the choice was easy for me. Anything to keep away from the big bang. I suppose this would benifit h/c cars with higher compression also. My car runs at at a constant 180 coolant temp maybe 190 in heavy traffic.
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Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: St. Cloud Minnesota
All of this has been a HUGE help! Thanks a million guys! Going to do as you recommended Vettedrmr, if i do replace it the stat it will be with the stock temp, sounds like a lot of people pose this to be a risk of engine longevity by lowering temps and with 73k on her i wanna get the most out of her. After inspecting more, i noticed the hose was callapsed (dont know how i missed this, I know i've inspected it last season several time thinking it could be a problem) but i will replace the hose tomorrow, flush the system and go from there. Once i get it up and running (replacing the trans and diff and getting a tune at DRM in the next week due to failure last nov.) i'll be able to actually trial and error..DRM will also be checking/lowering fan temps.
Thanks to all for advice/tips
Matt
Thanks to all for advice/tips
Matt
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: St. Cloud Minnesota
when i took the cap off it made a whoosh sound much like opening a bottle of soda...could that still be the issue? could the hose collapse due to heat? thus not letting adequate amount of coolant through causing to overheat? i'm nothing close to a mechanic nor know much about how all these systems work..so any expertise is appreciated.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,267
Likes: 40
From: Phoenix AZ
First things first....make sure the gauge is reading correctly 
Stick a thermometer in the radiator fins on both sides of the fan, it will also tell you the efficiency.
As a rule of
High temps high speed (highway)=
Low or restricted water flow in some form... slipping water pump belt, hose collapsed, stuck thermostat, plugged radiator internal (low flow), plugged external with grass, rocks, plastic bags etc. Possible head gasket.
High temps while slow city driving =
Low air flow......fans are crap , radiator externally plugged up with garbage, thermostat, water pump corroded fins not flowing enough at idle.
A knowledgeable tech should be able to figure it out.
Stick a thermometer in the radiator fins on both sides of the fan, it will also tell you the efficiency.
As a rule of
High temps high speed (highway)=
Low or restricted water flow in some form... slipping water pump belt, hose collapsed, stuck thermostat, plugged radiator internal (low flow), plugged external with grass, rocks, plastic bags etc. Possible head gasket.
High temps while slow city driving =
Low air flow......fans are crap , radiator externally plugged up with garbage, thermostat, water pump corroded fins not flowing enough at idle.
A knowledgeable tech should be able to figure it out.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,918
Likes: 1,879
From: Hot Springs AR
Originally Posted by 99WhtC5
...After inspecting more, i noticed the hose was callapsed (dont know how i missed this, I know i've inspected it last season several time thinking it could be a problem) but i will replace the hose tomorrow, flush the system and go from there. ..Matt
E.T.'s advice is spot-on, first thing I'd replace would be the radiator cap. I had a similar problem, replaced the cap, and no more coolant loss.
Get the system full of coolant and I bet you find your temps dropping right back down to normal.
HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,792
Likes: 255
From: Ossining New York
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Hey there guys...here's the real deal...
Hey there fellas....
I've been following alot of threads about what stat to use... Hands down, If you have a LS1/LS2 with no special cooling requirements...The 160 STAT WORKS BEST....Let's face it...Our fuel octane sucks....To get the most out of the motor....and not burns stuff up....Cooler is better..There's too much to get into here, but trust me...I've installed and sold 1000 of these 160's....Other states, climates, and countries...Hot or Cold...It dosen't matter.....The 160 works best and is guaranteed to make good heat in the winter in any climate and is your best friend in the summer. Ping and detonation is BAD...and our octane sucks.....That 160 is your friend. I have come across very few vehicles that didn't like it.....and they had aftermarket radiators...huge displacment engines...or other out of the ordinary circumstances....
Hope this helps,
Chuck CoW
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Portland OR
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
Pretty good advice from a relative newbie here,,,,the C5 was designed to run between 190 and200 coolant, and 200 210 oil temps... running slightly hotter is OK but running colder is a no no.. you do not want to run your car below 190F for long periods of time..
If you go with a 160 in MN, you will have to change it out for the winter...
Stock fan setting were designed to work in the 230F coolant environment. Take note of the red line on the gage for coolant temp.
The late John Lingenfelter always put them in his cars.........Good enough for me!!
Last edited by Too-Tall; Apr 16, 2006 at 02:36 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 161
From: Las Vegas Nevada
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
Pretty good advice from a relative newbie here,,,,the C5 was designed to run between 190 and200 coolant, and 200 210 oil temps... running slightly hotter is OK but running colder is a no no.. you do not want to run your car below 190F for long periods of time..
If you go with a 160 in MN, you will have to change it out for the winter...
Stock fan setting were designed to work in the 230F coolant environment. Take note of the red line on the gage for coolant temp.
I currently have a 160* thermostat in my car and even here in Vegas, when the winter temps are in the 40’s, my car will run as low as 167*. If ET says it’s bad, I would take it to the bank. With his experience and knowledge I think most of should use the factory or at most a 180*. Anybody want to buy a 160* thermostat?
Thanks,
Clayton from Las Vegas
Racer
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 315
Likes: 1
From: Canton GA.
This is not to cause a flame, but something to think about.
I was reading some were that the ls-1 motor put out the peak power at 186. If this the case the 160 would be to cool and 190+ would be to hot. And running the ls/1 at 160 / 190 would be a power lost.
I am running a 170 in south florida daily driver and the vette is running about just under 190 on the highway per the DIC. I am no expert, but I feel that a 160 is just a little too cool for our ls-1/6 blocks. For lt-1 motors I went with a 160 and never had a problem. But we must remember the ls-1 is newer design and the old rule sometime get us down the wrong path.
I was reading some were that the ls-1 motor put out the peak power at 186. If this the case the 160 would be to cool and 190+ would be to hot. And running the ls/1 at 160 / 190 would be a power lost.
I am running a 170 in south florida daily driver and the vette is running about just under 190 on the highway per the DIC. I am no expert, but I feel that a 160 is just a little too cool for our ls-1/6 blocks. For lt-1 motors I went with a 160 and never had a problem. But we must remember the ls-1 is newer design and the old rule sometime get us down the wrong path.
Safety Car
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,827
Likes: 352
From: Albuquerque NM
On the original question, 160 Vs 180, I tried three different 180 stats, and none of them worked as advertised. I will not name who's stats they were, not interested in flaming wars here. I bought a Hypertech 160 and it works perfectly, starts to open at 160, keeps the coolant at 170+/- 2 degrees on the open road. And for folks who drag race (YO!) if you start the run at 170 you're still in the low 180's at the end of the pass, and don't get any power pulled from going too hot.
I run mine year round, and Abq, NM gets pretty cold, I've seen below zero, and my convertable stays toasty inside, the heater keeps up just fine.
I run mine year round, and Abq, NM gets pretty cold, I've seen below zero, and my convertable stays toasty inside, the heater keeps up just fine.