Steve: we can't compare the mn6 to A4 ..... its apples/oranges

Vetred: I KNOW !!!!!! but not all synthetics are equal.....I am finding out there are friction modifiers that some have or don't have that might make a difference

yankeevettconvert: I asked Rodney (not Randy) twice. Got his "final answer this morning".........SYNTHETIC. He didn't specify ..... seemed like he just liked synthetic


DH

 

IS ANYONE ACTUALLY USING MOBIL1 IN THEIR A4 ?????????


DH

 

DH,
If you order the AMSOIL ATF direct from AMSOIL (info in my sig), it will show up on your doorstep about 2 business days after you order it.
FYI, this synthetic ATF meets Dexron III standards and I strongly feel it will hold up to the heat your tranny sees much better than a conventional (such as Dexron III) or a synthetic blend fluid (such as Dexron VI).

 

Brad

Thanks for your input and the link. I like that Amsoil puts all info and specs of their products to be easily viewed. I actually talked to the brother of FastCashDave who posted above today. He seemed pretty knowledgable and said he would use ART.....Synthetic Super Shift 10wt......as it does or does not have a certain friction modifier that seems to concern many people for use with the A4. You seem to be recommending to basic synthetic ATF (how many are there)I'm not exactly sure how it works but many argue that synthetic will be too slippery and cause the clutch pacs to slip and therefore wear. No body seems to argue that the sythetics will hold up to heat and therefore create less varnish and deposits. I don't know if all synthetics are equal or not. I do know that Mobil1 says on the bottle it is compatible with DexIII. I was in a shop today to pick up my B&M oversized tranny pan......they had the Royal Purple synthetic ATF and it too said ok to use in place of Dex III.

Are you sure that Dexron VI is a synthetic blend. The dealerships don't even know that......I've asked two of them.

I was going to get the Amsoil. But when I called the NV depot he had just gotten his shipment of 135 and it was all spoken for!!!!!! Problem is I may need it wednesday when my tranny is hopefully being delivered.

So at this point I can go to dealer in AM and get the DexVI or back to the local shop for Royal Purple or Pepboys for Mobil 1 and then switch to Amsoil in 6 months when I drain fluid.

Man I am so confused........wish I would have researched this sooner and talked to you before I began running out of time


DH

 

DH,
I don't know for sure what basestock GM Dexron VI uses. I subscribe to a weekly report from Lubes-n-greases. Here is a quote from them on the new Dexron VI in this link:
Long Life Lubes Require Better Basestocks

"With premium ATFs, said Linden, base oil quality is vital to fluid performance. Ford’s Mercon-V calls for Group II-plus; DaimlerChrysler’s Mopar ATF+4 calls for Group II-plus or III; and Dexron-VI generally needs Group III quality.

“The Dexron-VI ATF specification does not specify a base oil quality level,” Linden noted. However, the viscosity and oxidation requirements make it difficult to meet the spec without using at least a Group III or Group II-III combination."

This is probably a better article on why GM came out with the improved fluid:
GM Rolls Out Dexron VI

Group III basestocks are generally recognized as "synthetics". They are made by highly processing conventional oils. Mobil 1 and AMSOIL use Group IV, or Polyalphaolefin (PAO), basestocks.

In my opinion, GM's new Dexron VI fluid has bridged some of the gap between Dexron III and aftermarket synthetic fluids meeting Dexron III specifications. It is clearly a better fluid than Dexron III, but I don't think it is anywhere near as good as aftermarket synthetics.

AMSOIL, Royal Purple and Mobil 1 ATFs are all compatible and labeled to meet GM Dexron III specification. Given they are labeled to meet the specification, they all should have the proper viscosity for use in your tranny.

I'd put some Mobil 1 ATF in your tranny and change it out in six months.

 

I too pondered this question and was told that sythetic oils for the
4l60e (A4) is a no no. Something to do with excessive slippage? Anyhow I stuck with the Dexron after replacing my A4.

 

A little more info on Dex VI
http://www.petro-canada.ca/eng/prods...8017_E_v14.pdf

Info - Release of DEXRON VI Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) #04-07-30-037A - (Aug 19, 2005)
Release of DEXRON® VI Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
2006 and Prior Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2003-2006 HUMMER H2
2006 HUMMER H3
2005 Saturn Relay
2005 and Prior Saturn L-Series
2005-2006 Saturn ION
2005-2006 Saturn VUE with 4T45-E
2005-2006 Saab 9-7X
Except 2006 and Prior Pontiac Vibe and Torrent
Except 2006 and Prior Chevrolet Aveo, Epica, Equinox, Optra
Except 2005-2006 Pontiac Wave
Except 2003-2005 Saturn ION with CVT or AF23 Only
Except 1991-2002 Saturn S-Series
Except 2006 and Prior Saturn VUE with CVT, AF33 or 5AT (MJ7/MJ8) Transmission Only
This bulletin is being revised to announce the use of DEXRON®-VI with the start of the 2006 model year production. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-037 (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle).
DEXRON®-VI ATF
General Motors Powertrain has recently upgraded to DEXRON®-VI ATF with the start of 2006 vehicle production.
Only 2005 and prior models that currently use DEXRON®-III may use DEXRON®-VI as a replacement.
All 2006 and future models that use DEXRON®-VI are to be serviced with DEXRON®-VI fluid only.
DEXRON®-VI is an improvement over DEXRON®-III in the following area:
DEXRON®-VI
Extended Factory Fill For Life 160,000 km (100,000 mi) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
80,000 km (50,000 mi) (Severe Use) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
Clutch Friction Stability Improved 100%
Clutch Durability Due To Fluid Improved 120%
Oil Film Thickness Increased 20%
Fluid Oxidation Improved 100%
Foam / Aeration Improved 150%
Shear Stability Improved 200%
* These ATF change intervals remain the same as DEXRON®-III for the time being.
2006 Transmission Fill and Cooler Flushing
Some new applications of the 6L80 six speed transmission will require the use of the J 45096 -- Flushing and Flow Tester to accomplish transmission fluid fill. It is highly recommended that the clean oil reservoir of the machine be purged of DEXRON®-III and filled with DEXRON®-VI.
Parts Information
Part Number Description
88861003 (US) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (1 Quart Bottle)
88861045 (US) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (1 Gallon Bottle)
88861046 (US) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (55 Gallon Drum)
88861004 (CA) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (1 Liter Bottle)
88861043 (CA) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (4 Liter Bottle)
88861044 (CA) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (205 Liter Drum)

 

If the new trans is well built, and you have the systems to keep temperature under control, conventional dexron will work fine. My trans builder (and other as you have found) feel the conventional fluid (which appears to be a semi synthetic blend) is the safest choice. If the full synthetic oil is too slippery, and you glaze the clutches, there is no fix other than a teardown to replace the soft parts. You are making enough power to stress the clutches.

I use conventional dexron in mine (from walmart in fact, as you can buy it in gallons). Only time I had trouble was when running a mix of Type F and dexron to get more clutch bite - it delayed the shifts too much.

Be sure to fill the trans as high as you can. I now try to run about 1qt over, to keep the pickup and valvebody submerged at all times. I have starved the trans pickup in high G corners, which shreds your clutches very quickly. Overfill is not easy with the stock pan side fill, I added a dipstick tube to simplify it.

 

BRAD, DAVID, STEVE:

Thanks again for your input. I chickened out on the synthetic since there is definatley a camp that advises against it. I just got back from the dealership with 16 quarts of Dexron VI. I am hoping it is much improved and along with my increased capacity (B&M Pan) and doubling the size of my tranny cooler will be at least adequate.

I will be changing fluid every 6 months so I still may switch to full synthetic after more input from actual A4 ABUSERS that run it


DH

 

As you can see above I will be using the Dexron VI for the time being at least.

What kind of tracking and tranny temps are you seeing in harsh conditions.

I have never heard of the over fill to protect from starvation but it sounds reasonable. I already add extra engine oil at the track for similar reasons.


DH

 

Do you have a pic of that.
I'd like that too.

 

AmsOil sythtics are great products and I used it in my tranny.

 

We have similar mods and power

Do you ever push your car hard/track and if so what are your tranny temps. Also how long have you been running synthetic. Which Amsoil ATF are you using???


DH

 

It's easier as I have the floor of the tub above the trans removable in the race car. The dipstick tube goes in what would be the stock location on the RWD version (F-body) of the trans. It's in front of the cooler lines, in a flat spot above the front right corner of the pan.

I was going to use a factory f-body tube setup, but ran out of time and just drilled and tapped a hole for 1/4 NPT and used an aeroquip style adapter to attach a short AN hose to the fitting. Then use an old lokar dipstick to slide in and check the fluid level. Also works great as a fill tube. I wish the factory had done that for us.

 

Dexron VI sounds really good, I'll try that next I think.

I started getting trans slip last summer, trying to exit some hard sweepers in 2nd gear. Fluid level was at the low end of the factory fill (I let all the fluid run out of the fill hole before plugging) Changing fluid showed many small flakes of clutch material, and the trans builder recommended replacing the clutches before the steels went.

Thought about the deep pan option, but did not want to reduce ground clearance as the car is very low.

 

I was worried about clearance too ...... I am lowered on cut front bushings and long rear bolts. But CF member R.P. has added the pan and has stated that it is only fractionally lower than stock and is still higher than the adjacent exhaust.


DH

 

something that nobody's mentioned here is the tc.

yank does not recommend synthetics....at least last yr at this time they didnt...

 

Do you know how many transmissions Rodney has done? If he is selling you the transmission and says synthetic is OK, why not trust that? I recently installed an RPM stage IV with a 3400 stall and 3.42's. I used Royal Purple in the trans and gearbox. I have a B & M trans cooler. No problems and even runs as cool as stock with the high stall. Believe me, there is no clutch slippage. This trans really hooks up.

 

Amen to that.

 

were u referring to me?
i hope not....
check my thread from 3-4days ago...
i am a loyal RPM supporter and client...x2.
i just made a simple comment that nobody has addressed the tc....

if not, never mind