Dealer is "disassembling" my engine
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,331
Likes: 39
Dealer is "disassembling" my engine
I wanted to wait for more info but the car has been at the dealer for the last 24 hours and I can't wait any longer. (sorry for the long post)
I've had an ongoing issue trying to get a "low oil pressure" (zero OP on gauges) warning at start-up fixed. The car has no been to a dealer 4 times for this. 1st time they couldn't replicate problem, 2nd (current dealer) it had lifter noise and wouldn't get OP up...dealer replaces lifters. 3rd time dealer pulls oil pans and finds coked oil coating the pans and a clogged oil pickup tube.
I took the car in yesterday, at the dealers request, becasue it now has a faulty "low oil" warning along with the "low oil pressure". After speaking with GM rep dealer now wants to pull oil pump and look at a possible stuck oil pressure relief valve (which is what I told them to look at the 1st time)
They told me that I might be responsible for the costs because of my mods. This pissed me off that on the 4th attempt to fix this they tell me I might be paying for this.
I wrote a 5 page letter to the Service Manager documenting what had been done to the car (actually what had not been done) and what I felt the problems were and my concerns over starting my car for the last 6 months with no oil pressure. All of the info I have gotten on this forum helped support my position (actually without this forum I think I would be USC without the paddle)
A reviewed the letter with the Service Manager for about and hour and about 20 minutes into the discussing the GM rep happens to walk into his office.
I basically reviewed that when the lifters were replaced nothing was done to address the low oil pressure problem and that my suggestion to look at the oil pump and relief valve were ignored. I then reviewed that the next time they pulled the pans and just cleaned the coked oil but didn't know why it was there and still ignored the oil pressure issue. I then explained my frustration over now wanting to pull the oil pump but wanting me to foot the bill.
I explained that I wanted a new engine because of the internal wear and the oil coking. I told them I wanted the bearings checked along with the oil pump. I also mentioned that the car used oil and that the dealer was tracking it since they changed oil for the lifter swap. It had used 1.5 quarts in 2300 miles.
The GM rep then jumped in and started explaining diff tollerances in mfg process and wanted to know if I had noise just on start-up. I explained that I did not have piston slap and the only noise was when the lifters were rattling.
I explain that I was aware of issues with LS1 piston rings.
The GM rep then suggests we put in new pistions and disassemble the engine to check it and replace anything that's not right.
He said this would be better than just putting in a new engine because a mechanic will be checking the tolerances for everything and not allowing them to be at the far ends of each componets tolerances.
I also forgot to mention we discussed the mods and how they would have anything to do with the inturnal engine oilling issues. The SM backed off when he found out I didn't have headers and that the stock MAF and TB was on. Before I left I review any mods I had made so I was being up front on every thing...because it would eventually come out in court if we had to go that far.
It looks like they are taking care of everything and frankly I'm concern about how easy it was. I was looking for a real battle (until the car is back in my garage anything can still happen).
What are your thoughts on what is going on?
[Modified by Gary2KC5, 9:38 AM 10/4/2001]
I've had an ongoing issue trying to get a "low oil pressure" (zero OP on gauges) warning at start-up fixed. The car has no been to a dealer 4 times for this. 1st time they couldn't replicate problem, 2nd (current dealer) it had lifter noise and wouldn't get OP up...dealer replaces lifters. 3rd time dealer pulls oil pans and finds coked oil coating the pans and a clogged oil pickup tube.
I took the car in yesterday, at the dealers request, becasue it now has a faulty "low oil" warning along with the "low oil pressure". After speaking with GM rep dealer now wants to pull oil pump and look at a possible stuck oil pressure relief valve (which is what I told them to look at the 1st time)
They told me that I might be responsible for the costs because of my mods. This pissed me off that on the 4th attempt to fix this they tell me I might be paying for this.
I wrote a 5 page letter to the Service Manager documenting what had been done to the car (actually what had not been done) and what I felt the problems were and my concerns over starting my car for the last 6 months with no oil pressure. All of the info I have gotten on this forum helped support my position (actually without this forum I think I would be USC without the paddle)
A reviewed the letter with the Service Manager for about and hour and about 20 minutes into the discussing the GM rep happens to walk into his office.
I basically reviewed that when the lifters were replaced nothing was done to address the low oil pressure problem and that my suggestion to look at the oil pump and relief valve were ignored. I then reviewed that the next time they pulled the pans and just cleaned the coked oil but didn't know why it was there and still ignored the oil pressure issue. I then explained my frustration over now wanting to pull the oil pump but wanting me to foot the bill.
I explained that I wanted a new engine because of the internal wear and the oil coking. I told them I wanted the bearings checked along with the oil pump. I also mentioned that the car used oil and that the dealer was tracking it since they changed oil for the lifter swap. It had used 1.5 quarts in 2300 miles.
The GM rep then jumped in and started explaining diff tollerances in mfg process and wanted to know if I had noise just on start-up. I explained that I did not have piston slap and the only noise was when the lifters were rattling.
I explain that I was aware of issues with LS1 piston rings.
The GM rep then suggests we put in new pistions and disassemble the engine to check it and replace anything that's not right.
He said this would be better than just putting in a new engine because a mechanic will be checking the tolerances for everything and not allowing them to be at the far ends of each componets tolerances.
I also forgot to mention we discussed the mods and how they would have anything to do with the inturnal engine oilling issues. The SM backed off when he found out I didn't have headers and that the stock MAF and TB was on. Before I left I review any mods I had made so I was being up front on every thing...because it would eventually come out in court if we had to go that far.
It looks like they are taking care of everything and frankly I'm concern about how easy it was. I was looking for a real battle (until the car is back in my garage anything can still happen).
What are your thoughts on what is going on?
[Modified by Gary2KC5, 9:38 AM 10/4/2001]
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,028
Likes: 5
From: Chicago (Naperville) IL
Re: Dealer is "disassembling" my engine (Gary2KC5)
Man I feel your pain - my car was misfiring and it went to the dealer 5 times - they changed (1) spark plugs, (2) plug wires, (3) some kind of coils, (4) PCM computer, (5) engine / transmission harness- each of those items are numbers by which visit it was changed.
It ended up the engine harness had battery acid leaked all over it, and had to be changed - 20 hours of man labor :U .
GMPP tried to give me a hard time, but the guys at the delaer fought with them for me (so I bought each of them a 12 pack to show my gratitude). But they fought for me - because GMPP was giving me a hard time with the PCM change and I fought like crazy- had GM on the phone with them and the dealer. The power of communication!!!
But in the end all the things that were done before the engine harness, didn't need to be done :mad
GOOD LUCK!!!
:flag
[Modified by Humy, 9:48 AM 10/4/2001]
It ended up the engine harness had battery acid leaked all over it, and had to be changed - 20 hours of man labor :U .
GMPP tried to give me a hard time, but the guys at the delaer fought with them for me (so I bought each of them a 12 pack to show my gratitude). But they fought for me - because GMPP was giving me a hard time with the PCM change and I fought like crazy- had GM on the phone with them and the dealer. The power of communication!!!
But in the end all the things that were done before the engine harness, didn't need to be done :mad
GOOD LUCK!!!
:flag
[Modified by Humy, 9:48 AM 10/4/2001]
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 17,992
Likes: 280
Re: Dealer is "disassembling" my engine (Gary2KC5)
Wow, what a hassle! Sorry you have to go through crap like that. One thing not to waste time on is telling the mechanic what to do. Unless you know them and they trust you, its a waste of thought to say it more then once.
Why would headers be a deal breaker on the repairs?
Joel
[Modified by C5 Hardtop, 9:52 AM 10/4/2001]
Why would headers be a deal breaker on the repairs?
Joel
[Modified by C5 Hardtop, 9:52 AM 10/4/2001]
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 5,331
Likes: 39
Re: Dealer is "disassembling" my engine (C5 Hardtop)
I just got off the phone with the Service Manager and guess what...it seems as thought the factory put too much red loctite on something and it cause the oil pressure relief valve to stick open.
They said that the pistons had too much clearance and that was what was causing blow by and coking the oil.
They found one of the main bearings scratched also.
They are sending it out to a local race shop to be rebuilt! New pistons, oil pump, rod bolts, rod bearings, main bearings, & lifters.
BTW: the headers were just something the Service Manager was trying to leverage against me, if they were going to try to get me to pay for the repairs. He initially wanted me to buy an extended warranty and I ask him how installing LT headers would affect the EW.
[Modified by Gary2KC5, 4:37 PM 10/4/2001]
They said that the pistons had too much clearance and that was what was causing blow by and coking the oil.
They found one of the main bearings scratched also.
They are sending it out to a local race shop to be rebuilt! New pistons, oil pump, rod bolts, rod bearings, main bearings, & lifters.
BTW: the headers were just something the Service Manager was trying to leverage against me, if they were going to try to get me to pay for the repairs. He initially wanted me to buy an extended warranty and I ask him how installing LT headers would affect the EW.
[Modified by Gary2KC5, 4:37 PM 10/4/2001]
