C-5 alignment question
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 47
Likes: 1
From: Pueblo CO
C-5 alignment question
I just purchased a 1999 FRC and need some help with alignment settings. I plan to purchase non-runflat Kumho MX tires. I will auto-x the car but probably drive 5000-6000 street miles per year. How much negative camber front and rear can I run without killing tire wear? Any alignment setting and tire suggestions would be appreciated.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 15
From: Syracuse NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
I just purchased a 1999 FRC and need some help with alignment settings. I plan to purchase non-runflat Kumho MX tires. I will auto-x the car but probably drive 5000-6000 street miles per year. How much negative camber front and rear can I run without killing tire wear? Any alignment setting and tire suggestions would be appreciated.
Front:
Toe 0.04° (individual)
Camber -0.20°
Caster 6.9° pos
Rear:
Toe -0.01° (individual)
Camber -0.18°
My C5 is set up this way now and sticks like glue in corners, yet the tires should wear evenly. Good settings for street driving.
Instructor
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 146
Likes: 13
From: San Jose CA
Vette Brakes and Products has recommendations for daily drivers, performance street, autocross and track, for all years on their website:
http://www.vbandp.com/instructions/h...ruct/align.htm
I haven't tried these yet, but plan to have an alignment to the auto-x specs they recommend before my next track day.
Good luck.
http://www.vbandp.com/instructions/h...ruct/align.htm
I haven't tried these yet, but plan to have an alignment to the auto-x specs they recommend before my next track day.
Good luck.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 89
From: Indy IN
For the little bit of street driving you do go ahead and max out the front at -2 degrees, and the back at -1.4.
For as little as we drive on the street, why give up anything at the track?
I did that and have 15,000 miles in two and a half years on the car now. I just flipped the fronts on the rims and will likely get another 5,000 miles on the front tires with a good bit more wear showing on the inside edge. Yes, I know there is an "inside" and an "outside" on the stock Goodyears that come on my Z, but most of my driving on the street is pretty sedate, and I would like to milk the fronts for this summer and then change them all later this year.
The backs have a bit more wear on them and are almost gone, but the negative camber really didn't hurt them that much, more like my right foot did the damage since they are worn pretty evenly from the middle to the inside edge....
For as little as we drive on the street, why give up anything at the track?
I did that and have 15,000 miles in two and a half years on the car now. I just flipped the fronts on the rims and will likely get another 5,000 miles on the front tires with a good bit more wear showing on the inside edge. Yes, I know there is an "inside" and an "outside" on the stock Goodyears that come on my Z, but most of my driving on the street is pretty sedate, and I would like to milk the fronts for this summer and then change them all later this year.
The backs have a bit more wear on them and are almost gone, but the negative camber really didn't hurt them that much, more like my right foot did the damage since they are worn pretty evenly from the middle to the inside edge....
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 15
From: Syracuse NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
For the little bit of street driving you do go ahead and max out the front at -2 degrees, and the back at -1.4.
For as little as we drive on the street, why give up anything at the track?
I did that and have 15,000 miles in two and a half years on the car now. I just flipped the fronts on the rims and will likely get another 5,000 miles on the front tires with a good bit more wear showing on the inside edge. Yes, I know there is an "inside" and an "outside" on the stock Goodyears that come on my Z, but most of my driving on the street is pretty sedate, and I would like to milk the fronts for this summer and then change them all later this year.
The backs have a bit more wear on them and are almost gone, but the negative camber really didn't hurt them that much, more like my right foot did the damage since they are worn pretty evenly from the middle to the inside edge....
For as little as we drive on the street, why give up anything at the track?
I did that and have 15,000 miles in two and a half years on the car now. I just flipped the fronts on the rims and will likely get another 5,000 miles on the front tires with a good bit more wear showing on the inside edge. Yes, I know there is an "inside" and an "outside" on the stock Goodyears that come on my Z, but most of my driving on the street is pretty sedate, and I would like to milk the fronts for this summer and then change them all later this year.
The backs have a bit more wear on them and are almost gone, but the negative camber really didn't hurt them that much, more like my right foot did the damage since they are worn pretty evenly from the middle to the inside edge....
It sounds to me like 90% of his mileage is street use. If I drove 5-6K miles a year on the street and ran a handful of autocross events, I would go with factory preferred settings... or maybe add just a little bit of extra negative camber (within factory recommended limits).
If I tracked the car more than used it on the street, I'd go with VBP's "advanced street" to start and adjust from there.
Again, he's gotta decide for himself. Hey, just my .02
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 89
From: Indy IN
It just depends on how competitive you want to be on the weekends.
All I was trying to say is that the wear issue isn't that big a deal if you go from 1.5 to 2 degrees, but the car will be a lot faster on the track.
Some folks shy away from serious track alignments cause they think that they are going to kill their tires in short order. That just isn't the case.
What really kills front tires in an autocross alignment is toe out. That makes the car turn in well but it cups and eats the front tires up in short order. If you run a little toe in on the street the front tire wear isn't all that bad, like I said, I expect to get about 20,000 miles out of the OE tires on the Z and to me, that's acceptable.
I run about 1/8 of an inch of total toe IN on the street and when I change tires for an autocross crank in one full turn of toe out in each tie rod. That changes the toe from about 1/8 of an inch of toe in to about 1/8 of an inch of total toe out and that works well on the track. You can mark the tie rods with paint and it takes about 30 seconds to reset them at each event.
All I was trying to say is that the wear issue isn't that big a deal if you go from 1.5 to 2 degrees, but the car will be a lot faster on the track.
Some folks shy away from serious track alignments cause they think that they are going to kill their tires in short order. That just isn't the case.
What really kills front tires in an autocross alignment is toe out. That makes the car turn in well but it cups and eats the front tires up in short order. If you run a little toe in on the street the front tire wear isn't all that bad, like I said, I expect to get about 20,000 miles out of the OE tires on the Z and to me, that's acceptable.
I run about 1/8 of an inch of total toe IN on the street and when I change tires for an autocross crank in one full turn of toe out in each tie rod. That changes the toe from about 1/8 of an inch of toe in to about 1/8 of an inch of total toe out and that works well on the track. You can mark the tie rods with paint and it takes about 30 seconds to reset them at each event.
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Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 47
Likes: 1
From: Pueblo CO
Thanks for your help!
It is very cool to be able to get input from several sources and I even appreciate the debate. Since I have never driven a Corvette in competition and have not auto-crossed since 1999, it will take me some time to learn to drive again, but not having to learn set-up will help. I'm also 63 years old but that just gives me incentive to be competitive with all you younger guys.
Based on the above, Tirerack encouraged me to purchase a set of Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3's instead of the Kumhos. They may be a tick slower in the dry but have good feedback, better in the wet and much more comfortable and quiet on the street. Then next year with more seat-time, I will buy a set of dedicated auto-x tires.
For alignment I plan to average all the recommendations for a start:
Front
1/32nd toe in
-.40 to -.50 camber
6.9 pos. caster (factory recommended)
Rear
1/16 toe in
-.30 to -.40 camber
Thanks again for your help!
Bob, Oklahoma City.
Based on the above, Tirerack encouraged me to purchase a set of Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3's instead of the Kumhos. They may be a tick slower in the dry but have good feedback, better in the wet and much more comfortable and quiet on the street. Then next year with more seat-time, I will buy a set of dedicated auto-x tires.
For alignment I plan to average all the recommendations for a start:
Front
1/32nd toe in
-.40 to -.50 camber
6.9 pos. caster (factory recommended)
Rear
1/16 toe in
-.30 to -.40 camber
Thanks again for your help!
Bob, Oklahoma City.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 5,265
Likes: 15
From: Syracuse NY
Cruise-In II Veteran
It just depends on how competitive you want to be on the weekends.
All I was trying to say is that the wear issue isn't that big a deal if you go from 1.5 to 2 degrees, but the car will be a lot faster on the track.
Some folks shy away from serious track alignments cause they think that they are going to kill their tires in short order. That just isn't the case.
What really kills front tires in an autocross alignment is toe out. That makes the car turn in well but it cups and eats the front tires up in short order. If you run a little toe in on the street the front tire wear isn't all that bad, like I said, I expect to get about 20,000 miles out of the OE tires on the Z and to me, that's acceptable.
I run about 1/8 of an inch of total toe IN on the street and when I change tires for an autocross crank in one full turn of toe out in each tie rod. That changes the toe from about 1/8 of an inch of toe in to about 1/8 of an inch of total toe out and that works well on the track. You can mark the tie rods with paint and it takes about 30 seconds to reset them at each event.
All I was trying to say is that the wear issue isn't that big a deal if you go from 1.5 to 2 degrees, but the car will be a lot faster on the track.
Some folks shy away from serious track alignments cause they think that they are going to kill their tires in short order. That just isn't the case.
What really kills front tires in an autocross alignment is toe out. That makes the car turn in well but it cups and eats the front tires up in short order. If you run a little toe in on the street the front tire wear isn't all that bad, like I said, I expect to get about 20,000 miles out of the OE tires on the Z and to me, that's acceptable.
I run about 1/8 of an inch of total toe IN on the street and when I change tires for an autocross crank in one full turn of toe out in each tie rod. That changes the toe from about 1/8 of an inch of toe in to about 1/8 of an inch of total toe out and that works well on the track. You can mark the tie rods with paint and it takes about 30 seconds to reset them at each event.
My alignment guy felt differently when I discussed this stuff with him. He mentioned on the rear, the C5 will "squat" when accelerating, and introduce more negative camber - thus increasing tire wear.
One could go
thinking about setups! 