Anyone help me with my cam problem?!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 861
Likes: 3
From: Dallas TX
Anyone help me with my cam problem?!
Ok, so heres the deal. I'm in Kuwait, and my brother owns a 2003 C5, automatic tranny. He recently had borla stingers put on, and a 114 lobe 228 duration camshaft by compcams installed by a local shop here. Well, we have had the car in and out of the shop 5 different times for the same problem, and i am fed up. The problem we're having is that when you start the car, it dies almost right away unless you keep your foot on the gas. The guy that did the tuning changed the idle rpm to 900, but it wont stay there unless you leave your foot on the gas and wait for about 2 minutes, and then the second you throw it into gear, it will die again, unless you hold your foot on the brake and give it gas... this is really annoying, and i am fed up with taking my car there for him to tell me he fixed it, and then turns out he has done nothing. I have had people tell me that it could be the timing, but im not sure. If anyone can help me out here and figure out what the problem is it would be greatly appreciated. Thank u
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,898
Likes: 6
From: Sahuarita AZ
I would suggest getting a copy of HPTuners and contacting Charlie on the forum. He does excellent mail order tuning and can probably iron your issues out very quickly. His forum user name is C_Williams@RPM.
If that's not an option for your brother (& he's in Dallas) have him visit Bobby at LG Motorsports. They have a good tuner there.
Matt
If that's not an option for your brother (& he's in Dallas) have him visit Bobby at LG Motorsports. They have a good tuner there.
Matt
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 861
Likes: 3
From: Dallas TX
the shop i go to has hp tuner... but i dont think they know what they're doing. Also, i dont want to have to pay for an emailed tune. Tunes are pretty simple if you know what you're doing, and most people ask quite a pretty penny for them too..
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,737
Likes: 0
From: Northern VA
I would suggest getting a copy of HPTuners and contacting Charlie on the forum. He does excellent mail order tuning and can probably iron your issues out very quickly. His forum user name is C_Williams@RPM.
If that's not an option for your brother (& he's in Dallas) have him visit Bobby at LG Motorsports. They have a good tuner there.
Matt
If that's not an option for your brother (& he's in Dallas) have him visit Bobby at LG Motorsports. They have a good tuner there.
Matt
Get it to a good shop.Charlie's mail order tune is probably better than many tuners.
Next thing you know they will be drilling holes in the throttle plate...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 2
From: Haymarket VA
CI 7-8 Veteran
From what I understand, tunes are more art than science so it's not just a matter of plugging in the right numbers. Just because Jimmy Joe Bob bought HPT and did a tune on his buddy's car doesn't make him an experienced tuner. I would say bite the bullet and take the car to an established shop with a good rep as a tuner. There's a reason they cost as much as they do.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 861
Likes: 3
From: Dallas TX
From what I understand, tunes are more art than science so it's not just a matter of plugging in the right numbers. Just because Jimmy Joe Bob bought HPT and did a tune on his buddy's car doesn't make him an experienced tuner. I would say bite the bullet and take the car to an established shop with a good rep as a tuner. There's a reason they cost as much as they do.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,898
Likes: 6
From: Sahuarita AZ
Get ahold of Charlie. His mail order tune price is very reasonable and they work great. If you can get a copy of your bin file from the shop who did your tune send it to Charlie. He will send you back the tuned bin, have the shop load it and see if you can take the car for a drive to get some logs for Charlie. He will adjust the tune based on the logs you give him.
I tried doing my own tune, I even considered getting a dyno tune... I tried Charlie and don't regret it one bit. My car idles like a dream and I will get it to a dyno shortly to see what kind of power it's putting down. I honestly think investing in a copy of HPTuners and using Charlie is your best option.
Matt
I tried doing my own tune, I even considered getting a dyno tune... I tried Charlie and don't regret it one bit. My car idles like a dream and I will get it to a dyno shortly to see what kind of power it's putting down. I honestly think investing in a copy of HPTuners and using Charlie is your best option.
Matt
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 380
Likes: 1
From: Janesville Wisconsin
IAC counts. Is the guy using a wideband? hows he tuning it?
Also if your going to buy HP Tuners, get a wide band and tune it yourself.
once you learn you wont need to rely on incompitant people again.
Also if your going to buy HP Tuners, get a wide band and tune it yourself.
once you learn you wont need to rely on incompitant people again.
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Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,331
Likes: 4
From: Jacksonville Florida
Tunes
100% Incorrect, Tuning is an artform. Yes it may seem easy when you watch an experienced tuner dial in yoru car, but it took that person a looooong time to get good at it. Bolting parts onto your car is the easy part, after that it is all about who you have tune it.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,370
Likes: 8
From: Slave to the evil empire
Cruise-In V Veteran
St. Jude Donor '04
Tuning may be an issue but the car should run fairly normal at idle with that cam in it even with the stock tuning, so I think you have other problems.
Lets get back to basics, were the heads removed when the cam was installed?
If so was the ground wire reattached on the back of the drivers side head, if not the car will barely run.
Lets get back to basics, were the heads removed when the cam was installed?
If so was the ground wire reattached on the back of the drivers side head, if not the car will barely run.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 752
Likes: 1
From: Tulsa OK
If tuning is "pretty simple," how did yours get screwed up. A good tune is not a simple process and getting done right is worth paying for. I was having some issues with my car and it took a trip to LG Motors in Dallas and three or four hours on the dyno to finally get it straightened out.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,088
Likes: 2
From: tampa florida
Tuning may be an issue but the car should run fairly normal at idle with that cam in it even with the stock tuning, so I think you have other problems.
Lets get back to basics, were the heads removed when the cam was installed?
If so was the ground wire reattached on the back of the drivers side head, if not the car will barely run.
Lets get back to basics, were the heads removed when the cam was installed?
If so was the ground wire reattached on the back of the drivers side head, if not the car will barely run.
I ran for two weeks on H/C 232-236 114 lsa w/o a tune. Seems like there are other issues.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 1
From: Chesapeake Va
About 50% of our work is stuff other people, both DIYers and other shops have built, or repaired, or tried to repair and couldnt.
I hear and see all the time about peeps buying HPT or EFI live or whatever, and BAM, they're a tuner. My programming software, and I have alot of it, costs a fraction of what I have invested in diagnostic equipment. I am a diagnostic specialist first. I solve problems. I have alot of customers come in for "tuning" because they have driveability problems. One as recently as yesterday. His problems could not be "cured" by tuning. It had a real problem. It takes an expert, with years of experience to differentiate between electrical/mechanical problems and PCM configuration issues.
AND, BTW, there is nothing easy about tuning. Try making a 240 something duration cam idle nice, not surge, or stall, etc. Then get back to me and tell me how easy it is. Anyone can learn to tune, but it aint easy.
Last edited by edcmat-l1; May 22, 2007 at 07:50 AM.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 623
Likes: 11
From: Ankeny IA
Tuning is indeed all about experience and intuition. I've done rudimentary tunes on my car using HPTuners to get by until I can get to a professional. There is a reason these guys get paid what they do. As for your problem it I agree with the other posters, it sounds like there are other issues here. I ran a TR 227 cam untuned for some time and never had any issues with stalling.
My first guess would be a vacuum leak. A cam install shouldn't involve removing the intake, so the brake vacuum line should not have been removed though you could still check it. I would start off making sure the MAF, air bridge and TB couplings are all tight. That would be something they would have removed during the cam install and it would be easy to overlook during reassembly. If it turns out to be a tune the VE Tables in the 800-1000-1200 range will be where you will look at for A/F and the base running airflow under Idle-idle airflow will be what you adjust to correct for the stall conditions. Good luck.
My first guess would be a vacuum leak. A cam install shouldn't involve removing the intake, so the brake vacuum line should not have been removed though you could still check it. I would start off making sure the MAF, air bridge and TB couplings are all tight. That would be something they would have removed during the cam install and it would be easy to overlook during reassembly. If it turns out to be a tune the VE Tables in the 800-1000-1200 range will be where you will look at for A/F and the base running airflow under Idle-idle airflow will be what you adjust to correct for the stall conditions. Good luck.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 380
Likes: 1
From: Janesville Wisconsin
You're right. But, and this is a big but, first you have to be able to PROPERLY DIAGNOSE a car before any tuning.
About 50% of our work is stuff other people, both DIYers and other shops have built, or repaired, or tried to repair and couldnt.
I hear and see all the time about peeps buying HPT or EFI live or whatever, and BAM, they're a tuner. My programming software, and I have alot of it, costs a fraction of what I have invested in diagnostic equipment. I am a diagnostic specialist first. I solve problems. I have alot of customers come in for "tuning" because they have driveability problems. One as recently as yesterday. His problems could not be "cured" by tuning. It had a real problem. It takes an expert, with years of experience to differentiate between electrical/mechanical problems and PCM configuration issues.
AND, BTW, there is nothing easy about tuning. Try making a 240 something duration cam idle nice, not surge, or stall, etc. Then get back to me and tell me how easy it is. Anyone can learn to tune, but it aint easy.
About 50% of our work is stuff other people, both DIYers and other shops have built, or repaired, or tried to repair and couldnt.
I hear and see all the time about peeps buying HPT or EFI live or whatever, and BAM, they're a tuner. My programming software, and I have alot of it, costs a fraction of what I have invested in diagnostic equipment. I am a diagnostic specialist first. I solve problems. I have alot of customers come in for "tuning" because they have driveability problems. One as recently as yesterday. His problems could not be "cured" by tuning. It had a real problem. It takes an expert, with years of experience to differentiate between electrical/mechanical problems and PCM configuration issues.
AND, BTW, there is nothing easy about tuning. Try making a 240 something duration cam idle nice, not surge, or stall, etc. Then get back to me and tell me how easy it is. Anyone can learn to tune, but it aint easy.
my 224/230 cam was easy to do. I have 3.23 gears in my TA and I can cruise around town in 4th gear at 30mph. No bucking, surging and idles like a dream. I did a friends car with a high 23X, yea was more tricky, but once you know what to look for then it becomes simple.
As for a newb, yea you have to learn the language first before attempting to touch it.
My turbo car was a pain in the azz with the 60# inectors but i eventually got it.
Also I believe a dyno tune isnt 100% correct for real life driving. All my stuff Ive tuned were road tested. Lots of trips and pissed off neighbors, but it works.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 910
Likes: 0
From: Burton TX
Very well put. I see it alot, people will come and say something wrongs with there tune when it really something with the car. Plug in the old scanner and find all kinds of codes. The most common has to be bad o2's either from apaters or being burnt on exhaust.
You're right. But, and this is a big but, first you have to be able to PROPERLY DIAGNOSE a car before any tuning.
About 50% of our work is stuff other people, both DIYers and other shops have built, or repaired, or tried to repair and couldnt.
I hear and see all the time about peeps buying HPT or EFI live or whatever, and BAM, they're a tuner. My programming software, and I have alot of it, costs a fraction of what I have invested in diagnostic equipment. I am a diagnostic specialist first. I solve problems. I have alot of customers come in for "tuning" because they have driveability problems. One as recently as yesterday. His problems could not be "cured" by tuning. It had a real problem. It takes an expert, with years of experience to differentiate between electrical/mechanical problems and PCM configuration issues.
AND, BTW, there is nothing easy about tuning. Try making a 240 something duration cam idle nice, not surge, or stall, etc. Then get back to me and tell me how easy it is. Anyone can learn to tune, but it aint easy.
About 50% of our work is stuff other people, both DIYers and other shops have built, or repaired, or tried to repair and couldnt.
I hear and see all the time about peeps buying HPT or EFI live or whatever, and BAM, they're a tuner. My programming software, and I have alot of it, costs a fraction of what I have invested in diagnostic equipment. I am a diagnostic specialist first. I solve problems. I have alot of customers come in for "tuning" because they have driveability problems. One as recently as yesterday. His problems could not be "cured" by tuning. It had a real problem. It takes an expert, with years of experience to differentiate between electrical/mechanical problems and PCM configuration issues.
AND, BTW, there is nothing easy about tuning. Try making a 240 something duration cam idle nice, not surge, or stall, etc. Then get back to me and tell me how easy it is. Anyone can learn to tune, but it aint easy.
