This is a great thread!

I am looking forward to the benefits of upgraded headlights on my Z06, but like most folks here, I will settle for nothing less than a perfect install. So you can bet I won't be doing this mod until I'm satisfied we've figured this out.

The comments about not using wire that is too thick were interesting. It makes sense. What gauge should the wire be?

Regarding stranded wire vs. solid, I am not sure I entirely agree. If a flat connector is pressed against a solid wire, I cannot see how it could have as much contact area as it would if pressed against a deformable stranded wire.

Regardless, I still can't see where things went wrong!

Here's a thought.. What if you did some extended testing using a battery charger as the power source while you investigate where the heat may be originating?? This would be even more extreme because there would be no cooling air flow.

 

More on the wire 'gauge' issue:

As I have said previously in this thread, I too went the Euro+130w H4 route (and to say again, they are GREAT!) and used 10 guage stranded wire.

HOWEVER (and a BIG 'HOWEVER'), if I had it to do all over again, I would SERIOUSLY rethink the 10 guage wire requirement, at LEAST its use 'everywhere' in the conversion.

'After all', the 'standard' headlamp wire is MUCH lighter (18 guage? I would say 16 gauge MAX) and I find it hard to believe that it is necessary to 'go all the way UP' to 10 gauge to handle a simple 2x-2.5x increase in current! 'Heck', I'm pretty sure that 14 gauge wire used in houses is 'good for' 1500 watts, at least, 12 gauge for 2000 watts, etc. AND these are prob. a bit on the conservative side...

I wouldn't 'have a problem' except that (again), even in 'stranded' form, 10 gauge is hard to find, a ***** to work with (bend, terminate, install connectors or, etc.)...

So, if I had to do it all over again, I think the only place I might use EVEN 10 gauge would be to the 12v power line TO the relays, and prob use 12 gauge (max., perhaps even 14) from there to the headlights, and something REAL light (16-18) in the 'signal lines' to the relay actuator terminals....

 

Solid copper wire, even if it is of the hard drawn type, is still softer than the terminal metal clamping it. If the terminal is the proper design and material, then the clamping force will create a gas tight seal. A gas tight seal does not allow oxygen to corrode the surfaces under the seal.

One must determine if the terminal was the wrong design, the wire guage too big or if the terminal was not designed to handle the heat. If the terminal was improperly installed, then a resistive joint would have formed.

 

Careful! Apples to oranges. You need to size the wire based on the AMPs, not just watts.

You know the huge steel electrical towers? I think they're 130K to 250K+ volts. They reason they jack the voltage is so they can keep the amperage down. Keeping the amps down allows them to keep the wire size down. If they were 4400 volts, for example, they'd need *MUCH* thicker wire. I believe they'd also have much greater transmission losses due to heat. It's the same basic reason you go to 220 when you need higher wattage.

So yup, you can safely push 1500 watts through 14 gauge house wiring. But 1500 watts at 12 volts would be 125 amps. Methinks stuff would melt!

I'm sure one of our resident EE's will correct me if I'm mistaken here ;)

 

Agreed.. The difference is, when I do house wiring, the connections are *screwed* *TIGHT*. And a properly applied wire nut cuts fresh into the copper of both wires.

Unfortunately, I suspect the clamping forces here are far lower. And then there is the vibration. That is a connection killer.

A buddy of mine was an F4 Phantom Tech. He says they just plain were NOT allowed to do solder connections due to how they respond to vibrations and conductivity issues. Cold crimping, as you imply, exposes virgin copper and protects the connection through significant constant pressure.

I was young when he told me this, and it surprised me. Prior to that I always thought a solder joint was the hot ticket.

 

Here is Dan's note to me (john Grimes)


Howdy, John. Your new supplies will go out Monday AM first thing. I must
confess to no small degree of bafflement on this end. I've advanced the
tinning theory, but your message below, indicating no evidence of
excessive heat at the junctions of the wire clamps to the wires, makes me
rethink that. (Incidentally, the ovals of phosphor bronze are serrated,
this is the "claw" referent). At this point my best theory is that both
filaments were on at the same time at some point. Do check carefully;
when you install the sockets, go ahead and put a bulb on each socket, then
turn on the lamps without installing the bulbs into the lamps. Make
certain only ONE filament is ever glowing at one time with your hand off
the beam selector switch.

I did read the thread of "Me neither, how strange" responses on the forum
board. This is indeed a puzzler; I've run this very same equipment on my
own cars (and done LONG night drives with BIG bulbs) for years, and have
sold so much of this same equipment that at one time we managed to draw
down North American Hella's entire supply of several of the kit items. A
ghost in the machine...? Anyhow, you should receive your new parts
shortly. Feel free to post this communication as well on the forum board;
I cannot locate my password and the forum administrator has not yet got
back to me.

I do note that one poster advocated using HID in the European headlamps.
I know this is something of a popular conversion, but it is NOT a good one
-- and my opinion would be the very same if I never ever sold another
lighting item for a Corvette. Please post the following to the forum
for me, if you would:

There are many unsafe, illegal and noncompliant products on the market,
mainly consisting of an HID ballast and bulb for "retrofitting" into a
halogen headlamp. Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very
different optics to produce a safe and effective -- not to mention
compliant -- beam pattern. It is not some great feat of upgrade
engineering to put an HID capsule where a halogen bulb belongs, it is just
plain foolishness. The most dangerous part of it is the deceptive and
illusory "improvement" in the performance of the headlamp. The
performance of the headlamp is perceived to be "better" because of the
much higher level of foreground lighting (on the road immediately in front
of the car). However, examining isoscans of the beam patterns produced by
this kind of "conversion" reveals *less* distance light, and often an
alarming relative minimum where there's meant to be a relative maximum in
light intensity. When you *think* you can see better than you can, you're
*not* safe.

HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical
shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits"
make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb
belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims
by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the
fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into
thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely,
HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.

You're not stuck and outta luck if you want HIDs on your Corvette;
Sylvania is soon to release HID headlamps in standard-sealbeam sizes (C1,
C2, C3, and whatever other cars you happen to have around that take sealed
beams) and Hella is only a few months away from having a quad-lamp system
for the C5 that uses their excellent modular projector beam headlamps,
which are available in HID. Those few of you (Jason?) who've seen
isoscans of the various headlamps out there know that $75 worth of T84
European headlamps from the dealer and another hundred bucks worth of good
bulbs and relay equipment from me or someone else produces vast amounts of
light in all the right places.

Keep on driving through the night brightly and SAFELY

DS

 

For those who were following this saga, I believe I have the answer. Dan Stern sent me some new lamps and connectors which I installed. When I replaced the fuses (one on each lamp) I noted that the lights came on even though the light switch had not been turned on. Turned them off and on several times -- lights would NOT go out. At this time I had the relays pulled out of their black cases (which I have neatly attached to the fan shroud with nut and bolt). I noticed that the moveable portion of one of the relays was crooked (I think it jumped out of its pivot point so that the spring could not retract, or pull the moveable portion of the relay back. Easy fix. Now everything is hunky dori, so I put everything back together, shove the relay innnards back into their black plastic cases. I diddle with the lights a bit more and suddenly I can't turn off the lights anymore. They retract fine but the lights stay on. The shooted 10 AWG is pulling at an angle on the base of the relay causing one side of the relay to slip its detent in the case and to partially pull loose - jamming the moveable portion of the relay closed against the side of the case. SOOOO, I figure this is what happened - I drove to a restaurant with my wife for dinner with my headlights on and parked. Forty five minutes or so later, I come out, start the car and head home. Shortly thereafter the lights totally fail. What I believe happened is that when I turned the lights out, they retracted but never turned off. Now the bulbs are vertical with the base now facing UP soaking up all that heat. They just got cooked. I spoke with Stern on this and he to believes that is a plausible answer. I further asked him about the necessity of using 10 AWG wire - he responded that he thought 10 AWG wire WAS overkill. If I ever redo the wiring it will be, at maximum 12 AWG and maybe 14 AWG. The key if you are using 10 AWG wire is to make sure the wires attached to the relay and absolutely perpindicular to the base of the relay OR you just leave the relays loose sitting on top of the 10 AWG wire so they are under no tension/strain.

 

Thanks for the follow up,

FWIW 10G wire is probably overkill but high strand is not available in 12G and up and that is much more difficult to work with. Just my 2 cents.

I hope you get it all sorted.

Joe